Should all drugs be legal?

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[Dolan]

afaik heroine is highly addictive right off the bat and if the state of heroine users today says anything, you basically get some very harsh cravings for it, which is enough to destroy a person (life revolves around the drug)

Yeah, but if it's taken under medical supervision, which may include counselling or special therapy to desensitise them from specific cues which induce craving in them it's possible to live with this addiction. Take a look at this post I wrote, it includes some studies on the efficiency of the so-called heroin-assisted treatment.

This is so ridiculously wrong it hurts my brain to read. Heroin absolutely destroys your resting hormonal balances, and it is impossible to function as a normal member of society while addicted to heroin (which happens the moment you take it). You're either high, or your body is breaking itself down like a Jenga tower constantly being played by people with rheumatism.

Heroin is used medically, either as pain medication or as maintenance-treatment for opioid-dependent patients. Here is, for example, a study

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 185.x/full

And another one:

http://www.biblioteca.cij.gob.mx/Archiv ... 445314.pdf

A study made on a sample of 434 patients over two years of continued heroin administration.

http://www.heroinstudie.de/H-Report_P2_engl.pdf

Also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

[_venox_]

Because every politician everywhere in the world is bought; because this topic only matters for US-citicen and should not be answered in a general way.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[Dolan]

Well, no, obviously this topic is about legalisation of drugs. And my thesis has been until now that hard drugs should only be legalised if taken under medical supervision.

So I never said that they should be legalised for recreational use without medical monitoring. Since they are so risky if you don't properly estimate a safe dose, you should never take them from unsafe sources, like dealers. Unless you have a chemical lab to be able to verify the purity and potency of the substance you better not take that shit. That's why maybe the health systems/pharma companies only should be allowed to produce medical heroin (dimorphine) and the health system should give it for free on a daily dose, prescribed by the doctor. The fact that you would offer it for free should be enough incentive for most users to stop buying from dealers, which would put those dealers out of business and would make the whole thing safer both for the public and for heroin addicts.

Addiction is a psychiatric problem anyway, so the whole treatment should include counselling too to help those afflicted kick the addiction. Once they deal with the psychological/environment issues that led them to substance abuse, they can gradually get weaned off of heroin.

PS. You can't really OD from smoking weed because you misestimated the right dose (like in the case of heroin), so weed is mostly safe for consumption without medical supervision. It should be forbidden for people who have a psychotic mental illness, because it will amplify the symptoms and worsen their condition (this has been proven by some studies in the past).

[Papist]

All drugs are dangerous in excess, and some are dangerous/addictive in small doses. This is why the laws exist in the first place. Are there places where they could be loosened up, particularly in the United States? Of course, but that doesn't mean that the laws are bad as a rule.

How about trying some science Follow the laws even though they are made of bought politicians - I not very vice

You're not very coherent either. Please explain how making heroin illegal benefits "bought politicians", if you would.

[spanky4ever]

Ever heard about private prisons?? Its a whole industry in your country. Ever heard about Big pharma who stand to loose billions if they cannot be the only once selling "painkillers", addictive prescription drugs etc?? How about the alcohol manufacturers? Not to forget the banking industry that are helping to laundry drug money!
[video]https://youtu.be/pDUsU_YHhIY[/video]

[Papist]

I'm not talking about marajuana, I'm talking about hard drugs. Marijuana should be legalized, and subsequently taxed and regulated.

[iNcog]

-- deleted post --

[spanky4ever]

I think Dolan made some good argument when it comes to Heroin.
I think that Marijuana, being the bread and butter for drug cartel's, when it is legal and you will not have to associate with criminals to get it, the request for other drugs will lessen - and the marked for drugs like Herion will most likely be much smaller. For those already hooked on heroin, they should be able to get it trough regulated channels - at a low price, regulated strength. That could give ppl addicted to Herion, a much better life - and they wouldn't have to do crimes to support their needs.

[Kappatain]

That could give ppl addicted to Herion, a much better life

Well, I haven't read most of the thread, so my comment might be totally out of place and context; however, just this sentence sorta caught my eye. I'm not sure if living a life essentially with every desire being controlled by a drug is much of a good life, even if it feels better. It's like giving an alcoholic plenty of alcohol? I dunno, maybe I misread the comment or don't know the drugs well enough, but it is my opinion that giving an addicted person more of what they're addicted to doesn't constitute a good life even if it is temporarily satisfying them.

[Papist]

Not only is heroin addictive, the user quickly develops a tolerance and needs more. Because it is so potent, this often leads to overdose. It does have its uses, but other drugs are far more effective (not to mention less dangerous).

[_venox_]

Maybe with "better life" he meant that addicts could more easily get help in a world where heroin would be legal, not just that they have an easier time obtaining heroin.

[spanky4ever]

Here is one of the worlds best expert on the subject: There are hundreds of videos made by/of him on youtube if you are interested in more:
[video]https://youtu.be/nCJ3HviSa4E[/video]

[Papist]

I wouldn't have a problem with hard drug use if 1) Users' behavior didn't hurt other non-users (violent crime, theft to fuel habit) and 2) The medical conditions that inevitably come in the wake of use didn't cost everyone else millions of dollars every year. Addiction is a condition that is very difficult to keep at home - it affects everybody. Therefore, it should be discouraged. Mandate rehab for addicts (in place of prison), crack down on the cartels, and throw dealers in jail.

[spanky4ever]

Humans have always used drugs - and will keep on doing it. Its an artificial line between drugs and alcohol. In fact, alcohol (15%) is more addictive than heroin (10%). What I am trying to say here, is that the propaganda disguised as science we have been feed for decades, are seriously biased. Instead of fear mongering, we should get unbiased information.

https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... zfHn40pv4g

[spanky4ever]

[video]https://youtu.be/qU886JT8734[/video]

[GoggleEyed]

Yes many drugs please..

I didnt take the time to read all the post but I think things like lsd shrooms and xtc could be legalized as they arent very harmfull drugs when properly used and they are probably some of the biggest assets of the criminal drug environment. Also less deaths of "fake" pills and better quality stuff when regulated by government.

That said things like heroin should never be legal imo...

EDIT: nvm didnt get the OP...

[Laurence Drake]

There is of course zero relationship between alcohol and our culture so banning it would of course be practical and feasible and would of course have no conceivable negative impact on the character of social gatherings in our communities and would of course only lead to people living longer, healthier, happier lives. And it is of course true that the same does not apply to heroin, which is a widely consumed social lubricant.

[spanky4ever]

Im not saying you should ban alcohol though - only that we should be more educated about the other drugs, before making wrong claims. Thats all.
It takes a little intelligence to review the facts, in order to change our belief systems. The stupid once only seek information that fits the false belief/values - when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary - its called confirmation bias and we all suffer from it in different degrees.

[Papist]

Humans have always used drugs - and will keep on doing it. Its an artificial line between drugs and alcohol. In fact, alcohol (15%) is more addictive than heroin (10%). What I am trying to say here, is that the propaganda disguised as science we have been feed for decades, are seriously biased. Instead of fear mongering, we should get unbiased information.

https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... zfHn40pv4g

Here's some unbiased information for you: drug users are a financial, physical, and psychological drain on society. We should invest in their treatment and crack down on their suppliers.

[spanky4ever]

@papist

notification

I will repeat myself here: The stupid once only seek information that fits the false belief/values - even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I would like you to take a look at my posts above that are referring to actual science, and the one above from Dolan before repeating old myths that unbiased "new" research are rejecting. Just try to have an open mind

[The Bailbondsman]

It's amazing the number of people who are taking some kind of drugs or drinking!

[momuuu]

Humans have always used drugs - and will keep on doing it. Its an artificial line between drugs and alcohol. In fact, alcohol (15%) is more addictive than heroin (10%). What I am trying to say here, is that the propaganda disguised as science we have been feed for decades, are seriously biased. Instead of fear mongering, we should get unbiased information.

https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... zfHn40pv4g

Here's some unbiased information for you: drug users are a financial, physical, and psychological drain on society. We should invest in their treatment and crack down on their suppliers.

Which can easily be accomplished by centralizing and legalizing drugs, to then use the money gained from that and saved by not spending money in the war on drugs on treatment of the addicted.

[deleted_user]

alcohol is great