Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

This is for discussions about the community, players, forum games, grudge matches, memes and everything else related to ESOC and its members.

How is ESOC's health?

Growing in quantity and quality
16
19%
Thank you, it is doing well
26
31%
It floats... for now
16
19%
Used to be better, or we are just getting old...
11
13%
It is sinking!
15
18%
 
Total votes: 84

User avatar
Holy See Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 958
Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Location: Well hello DEre

Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by Imperial Noob »

.
User avatar
Sweden Gendarme
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sep 11, 2016
ESO: Gendarme

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by Gendarme »

I wish off-topic was more active and interesting. Other than that it's great and growing, I think.
Pay more attention to detail.
User avatar
Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 13002
Joined: Feb 27, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by Goodspeed »

Doing well, though I agree with @Gendarme, off topic could be better. Less moderation, more inclusivity.
Why do you think the end is nigh @Imperial Noob?
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by pecelot »

yeah, so when was the last time off-topic itself was redacted? :roll:
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 8219
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: [VOC] Bram
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Objectively speaking, very well. Of course, there will always be pessimists who think the game and ESOC are dead, but the numbers don't lie. If not for ESOC, the game would certainly be on life support.

[spoiler=Twitch stats]90 days

Image

Image[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Youtube stats]Image[/spoiler]

The social media channels keep growing each day. Even outside of seasonal tournaments, we gain a steady amount of followers/subscribers and views each day. The third graph shows that we peaked our monthly youtube views and subscribers this month. I would say ESOC is doing great!
User avatar
Holy See Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 958
Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Location: Well hello DEre

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by Imperial Noob »

.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by pecelot »

That is exactly why Age of Empires 2 died.

Oh, wait... :hmm:
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user »

It's winding down. We live our lives in phases I think. ESOC has been an incredibly rewarding and rejuvenating but ultimately finite phase like any other for us. I'm not saying it's going to disappear in a month but it probably will for me. It can only survive so many of these inactivities from primary members. It's not as if quality is being considerably increased or quantity for that matter. Viewership has stagnated with largely the same staff members as always. Top-player participation has stagnated, the driving force behind tournament turnout. The forums have become increasingly stale. Prize pools have seemed to stagnate. Aoe3 is just not a sustainable game (some might suggest the above are the definition of sustainable - they are not) as much as we would like to pretend otherwise, in terms of audience and the manpower behind the scenes. Lives progress. I mean, it's going to end at some point. It's lived a healthy life so far and still has a lot of life to it but it's by no means set in concrete to last any longer than the somewhat immediate future.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by pecelot »

Although some of your concerns may sound reasonable, the others definitely don't — the staff has changed drastically over the last, let's say, year, Steam sales are pumping up our player-base, ESO activity peaks, it's all going well — at the very least! :biggrin:
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by deleted_user »

Call it a hunch, nothing more. The website ESO-Community.net appears to be winding down. The primary staff administrating everything has remained largely the same since its inception - I have no problem with this btw. All it takes is a perfectly reasonable shake up in that department to throw it all off course. We'll see, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong. I think in the future it'll take more people to step up that I do not think will be able to step up :)
User avatar
Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 4513
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Clan: WPact

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Well, I'm honestly unsure whether Callen's posts here are meant to be serious, but they definitely are in direct contradiction with reality.
You can see actual stats posted by Bramboy in this very thread, indicating a clearly rising activity.
It can only survive so many of these inactivities from primary members. It's not as if quality is being considerably increased or quantity for that matter.
Really if this isn't satire I guess I'd have to be offended. The team is working very hard to both uphold quality and increase quantity.
Viewership has stagnated with largely the same staff members as always.
Viewership is covered by Bramboy above. Staff team is changing so often I gave up on releasing newsposts about it.
Prize pools have seemed to stagnate.
Again, literally untrue. ESOC Spring 2017 had the biggest prizepool of all ESOC tourneys.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by deleted_user »

The differences are relative. I see them as relatively stagnant. $1500 vs $1000 I just don't see what the big deal is. We've never reached the same peak viewership as the first tourney we first hosted 2.5 years ago which was largely casted by the likes of Interjection, Zuta, H2o, and other high-quality streamers and casters. Purely from this metric we could argue both quality of content and quantity of viewers have stagnated or even regressed over time. Not saying two plot points are indicative of the general trend line but peak viewer data cannot necessarily be ignored. The effort of individuals does not necessarily translate directly to an improvement of such metrics. It's not a personal insult. I worked incessantly under stress to get a 480p stream of last year's 2nd chance finals at the last minute - objectively the quality and thus viewership was very poor. This was not because of my lack of effort.

I think most people are confusing "sustainability" with "our name is simply out there a little more now."

Tbh forum members and idle twitch viewers may show growth but that's not what drives things. It's a volunteer-based team working on an old rts game for an unresponsive community. It's simply not going to last forever. I simply see it and the peoples retiring before you do.

Nothing about what I said is satire. I've been around for a while now; you should open yourself up for a more give-and-take conversation about the website and its future even if I'm blatantly wrong.
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by lordraphael »

I kinda agree with collen. ESOC has been the saving grace for aoe but ultimately it wont revive the game, it simply cant. If microsoft doesnt launch another expansion this game will die eventually. It might take years but its slowly declining, this may be sad, but its inevitable. Still I enjoy being here and ill probably be around for a few more years. Maybe not as active but Ill be around and once aoe 3 completly dies it will take another few years I think.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by Mitoe »

deleted_user wrote:We've never reached the same peak viewership as the first tourney we first hosted 2.5 years ago which was largely casted by the likes of Interjection, Zuta, H2o, and other high-quality streamers and casters.

I think part of the reason for this is because we started using ESOCTV instead of the official AoE twitch.

But yeah. I don't know. It's been literally impossible the last few months to find a game as a pr35+ player if you're not playing during the peak times in Europe.

Especially since cheaters have completely destroyed any sort of pr30+ quick search presence, it's difficult to see the game reaching the same level of activity that it had even one year ago any time soon.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by deleted_user »

Mitoe wrote:
deleted_user wrote:We've never reached the same peak viewership as the first tourney we first hosted 2.5 years ago which was largely casted by the likes of Interjection, Zuta, H2o, and other high-quality streamers and casters.

I think part of the reason for this is because we started using ESOCTV instead of the official AoE twitch.

Valid point I forgot about this. But yeah top player activity drives the activity of quite literally everyone else in some way or another.
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by lordraphael »

Mitoe wrote:
deleted_user wrote:We've never reached the same peak viewership as the first tourney we first hosted 2.5 years ago which was largely casted by the likes of Interjection, Zuta, H2o, and other high-quality streamers and casters.

I think part of the reason for this is because we started using ESOCTV instead of the official AoE twitch.

But yeah. I don't know. It's been literally impossible the last few months to find a game as a pr35+ player if you're not playing during the peak times in Europe.

Especially since cheaters have completely destroyed any sort of pr30+ quick search presence, it's difficult to see the game reaching the same level of activity that it had even one year ago any time soon.

ye i think you almost cant overestimate the effect cheaters had and are still having on ESO. Yea the qs situation wasnt really good before the blatant cheating started, but it existed, nowadays the only decnet player that plays qs is dydd91 and he too plays only on smurf accounts.
Also the sad thing is that it seems like its at max 5 people that use the moesbar hack and camping on qs.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
User avatar
Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 4513
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Clan: WPact

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by EAGLEMUT »

$1500 vs $1000 is a 50% increase, I just don't see how this can be called stagnant.

It is true we've not reached the same peak viewers of the first tournament, though we did have the same high-quality streamers cast in other events too. With this peak viewer data you need to consider one big factor — as Mitoe mentioned, the first ESOC tournament was the only ESOC tournament streamed on the official ageofempires channel. We're talking about a channel which currently has about ten times the number of followers as our ESOCTV channel. I'm confident we'd be able to break that peak today if we'd organize a tournament similarly.

Of course things don't always work out and organization has sometimes been less than ideal before, not going to deny that. Since it wasn't satire I'm sorry for the confusion.

Cheaters are definitely very bad for the game. I hope MS will be able to fix up their support systems for the game and step up the moderation, but who knows how long that will take.
User avatar
Australia Timba
Skirmisher
Posts: 118
Joined: Jun 12, 2017
ESO: Timba_
Location: Straya

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by Timba »

What sorts of things can we do to help keep the community 'healthy'?
The best moment I've ever seen in AoEIII: youtu.be/LuMcFUjt6zQ?t=12m
User avatar
United States of America noissance
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2031
Joined: Mar 28, 2015
ESO: noissance
Location: United States

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by noissance »

A chart of most active time periods, in a set time zone would be awesome. Im sure the dev team can come up with something like this!
Error 404: Signature not found
User avatar
United States of America lesllamas
Lancer
Posts: 620
Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by lesllamas »

First post on the forum here in a while.

I definitely think it's hard to ever reach a critical mass in a grassroots game that is done entirely online. The game also isn't conducive to picking up new viewers, or at least it's not as conducive as some games. The barrier for entry level understanding is fairly high, whereas a game like melee is instantly recognizable and understandable to most viewers.

Also you have to contend with the fact that most casuals who are picking up AoE from Steam for nostalgia value pick up AoE2 instead of AoE3. Even though I think AoE3 is a better game to play and that it deserves more of the spotlight, the fact is that most noobs love the nostalgia of having their castles with longbows and trebuchets and shit instead of large masses of muskets.
User avatar
Holy See Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 958
Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Location: Well hello DEre

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by Imperial Noob »

Why aren't newer tournaments hosted in an official ageofempires channel, if that helped the cause?
Were we kicked out, or is it some sort of nationalism on the behalf of the Team?
At least semi-finals and finals could be hosted there, with ESOCTV just sharing live.
?
profit
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 8219
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: [VOC] Bram
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

deleted_user wrote:The differences are relative. I see them as relatively stagnant. $1500 vs $1000 I just don't see what the big deal is. We've never reached the same peak viewership as the first tourney we first hosted 2.5 years ago which was largely casted by the likes of Interjection, Zuta, H2o, and other high-quality streamers and casters. Purely from this metric we could argue both quality of content and quantity of viewers have stagnated or even regressed over time. Not saying two plot points are indicative of the general trend line but peak viewer data cannot necessarily be ignored. The effort of individuals does not necessarily translate directly to an improvement of such metrics. It's not a personal insult. I worked incessantly under stress to get a 480p stream of last year's 2nd chance finals at the last minute - objectively the quality and thus viewership was very poor. This was not because of my lack of effort.

I think most people are confusing "sustainability" with "our name is simply out there a little more now."

Tbh forum members and idle twitch viewers may show growth but that's not what drives things. It's a volunteer-based team working on an old rts game for an unresponsive community. It's simply not going to last forever. I simply see it and the peoples retiring before you do.

Nothing about what I said is satire. I've been around for a while now; you should open yourself up for a more give-and-take conversation about the website and its future even if I'm blatantly wrong.


I never claimed it was going to last forever, and I'm fully aware that it won't. However, instead of looking at what we don't have, look at what we do have: a healthy community, driven by enthusiastic staff members and a handful of top players. The diehard top players and primary staff members won't simply disappear as time goes on. I'm talking about a period of 3-4 years here. Let's enjoy the situation we're in right now and ignore the inevitable future!

Your claims about viewership are false. In Spring 2015, we peaked at 847 viewers, while in Winter 2016, we peaked at 836 viewers. The average amount of viewers was higher in Winter 2016 than in Spring 2015. For a channel that has more than ten times fewer followers, I'd say we're doing pretty good. FYI: The first screenshot is from the official ageofempires channel, the second screenshot is from the official ESOCTV channel.

[spoiler=Spring 2015]Image[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Winter 2016]Image[/spoiler]

Imperial Noob wrote:Why aren't newer tournaments hosted in an official ageofempires channel, if that helped the cause?
Were we kicked out, or is it some sort of nationalism on the behalf of the Team?
At least semi-finals and finals could be hosted there, with ESOCTV just sharing live.


We moved to ESOCTV in order to have more control over our channel. We were limited by strict Microsoft rules and their schedule. For example, we weren't allowed to swear on stream, play music (this included aoe3 music), or stream outside of Saturdays and Sundays. With ESOCTV, we can do a lot more cool things, such as nightbot, the discord live bot, Twinge, and most importantly: streamlabs!

We already host the later rounds on the ageofempires channel. We've done this since Summer 2015.

EDIT: 4000th post :flowers:
User avatar
Netherlands dietschlander
Lancer
Posts: 944
Joined: Oct 8, 2015
Location: Dietschland

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by dietschlander »

Timba wrote:What sorts of things can we do to help keep the community 'healthy'?


#freethebashment

I loved the time when you'd open offtopic section and there were lots of trolly topics
Theres going to be a dam, the great dam and we'll let the beavers pay for it - Edeholland 2016
Anyway, nuancing isn't your forte, so I'll agree with you like I would with a 8 year old: violence is bad, don't do hard drugs and stay in school Benj98
User avatar
Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 817
Joined: Apr 16, 2017
ESO: HUMMAN

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

Post by HUMMAN »

I feel sadness in callen's post, like you expected something greater. Right know, community is blessed with devs and staff who organize tournaments, maps patchs, why number of viewers are so important? Honestly i wouldnt start in aoe3 if this forum didnt exit. There are many retro games only few has something like that. As long as there are passionate people who play there is no problem for me.
Edit: Also it is good to have limited people i think i dont want this game to be popular, you know who you play with mostly. I feel like i am in a friendly town.
Image
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?

  • Quote

Post by pecelot »

I don't really get to point of this melancholia — we're all gonna die one day, are we? :roll:

[spoiler=hehe]
phpBB [video]
[/spoiler]

EAGLEMUT wrote:Staff team is changing so often I gave up on releasing newsposts about it.

No problem — I've got you covered, buddy! :flowers:
1/4/2017 — SirCallen joins the Media Team
2/4/2017 — SirCallen leaves the Media Team
1/5/2017 — SirCallen joins the Media Team
2/5/2017 — SirCallen leaves the Media Team
1/6/2017 — SirCallen joins the Media Team
2/6/2017 — SirCallen leaves the Media Team
1/7/2017 — SirCallen joins the Media Team
2/7/2017 — SirCallen leaves the Media Team

**

Listen to this Brambonnie guy, he plays one game every half a year and yet he's so enthusiastic! :love:

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV