Discussion over timings
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- Crossbow
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Dec 20, 2017
- ESO: Sub0Winters
Discussion over timings
I am trying to figure out what people mean by a timing. How do you identify when is a timing and how do you respond as a offender/defender of a timing?
Here is an example of it being used in goodspeeds Spain guide: 600w or (4) 8 pike for a timing or (4) 600/700g (age up optional)
Are these memorized times in the game or what?
Thanks!
Sub0
Here is an example of it being used in goodspeeds Spain guide: 600w or (4) 8 pike for a timing or (4) 600/700g (age up optional)
Are these memorized times in the game or what?
Thanks!
Sub0
Re: Discussion over timings
A timing is when your military power spikes. This is usually done intentionally by preparation. An example would be sending 1000 coin to train 10 cuirassiers from two stables, and right after sending a shipment of 3 cuirassiers. Your shipment of 3 cuirassiers will arrive almost at the same time as your 10 cuirassiers pop out of your stables, and at that very point in time you'll have a larger army than you otherwise would have (because you timed everything for this specific moment). This is typically when you're at your strongest and should pressure your opponent, because you sacrificed long-term gains for this military boost.
Pay more attention to detail.
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- Ninja
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Re: Discussion over timings
the word timing is basically something like the word freedom. everyone vaguely understands what it means, but whenever you ask, it seems like everyone means something else.
Re: Discussion over timings
I'm correct, though. Anyone who disagrees is wrong.
Pay more attention to detail.
Re: Discussion over timings
Gendarme is mostly correct. A "timing" is usually when your army is at a strong point during the game, and will change from game to game depending upon your build order; they are, however, also relative to your opponent's strong points. If you reach the strongest point in your build with 30 musketeers but your opponent has equal or more units than you, you don't exactly have any sort of "timing."
You can identify timings with good scouting, usually, and respond by adapting your build. The easiest way to anticipate a timing is to attempt to scout the opponent's shipments and keep track of them; in order to do this it's important to understand the differences between different types of shipments:
1) Villager/Economic Shipments: The best times to send a villager shipment are early on (3-5+ minutes before any sort of intended "timing."), or after a timing. Villagers take longer to pay off than other shipments, because their instant resource value is essentially 0 when they arrive, but will increase infinitely over the course of the game assuming they survive and that the game lasts long enough: so you ideally want to send them in such a way that they'll gather enough resources to be equal or greater than another card at the point that you want to fight. If you try to send a villager shipment while you're pushing, your push is going to be a lot weaker with that 0 resource boost to your army value than if you sent something like 6 musketeers (600 resources). If you scout a villager shipment, it's unlikely for a push to come immediately.
Send villager shipments early in your build, or after you've pushed or gained some sort of advantage so that you can start gearing up for a 2nd timing later on in the game.
2) Resource Crates: Resource crates give you a more immediate bonus than villager shipments, and are often higher value than military shipments, but require time to gather and spend. They contribute to your build ~60 seconds after arriving. For timings, it is usually a good idea to send crates right before a military shipment or something so that you can time the spending of these resources with an immediate military shipment. It's also important to note that resource crates are more flexible than military shipments, so when scouting you should be try to be aware of what else they could be spending these resources on other than military that could delay their timing; e.g. aging/teching up, trading posts, manors/shrines/banks, fishing boats, etc.
3) Military Unit/Upgrade Shipments: Military-related shipments have a more immediate impact on the game than villager/crate shipments. They add instant resource value to your military and are great to send as you are fighting or intending to fight. If you aren't intending to attack or defend anything in the near future, you will almost always be better off sending some other sort of shipment instead so that you may have a stronger timing with one of these cards later down the road instead.
Using this information, you should usually be able to anticipate a strong or weak point in your opponent's build order, which will either indicate a timing window for you to punish them for investing in something other than military, or you will need to defend a timing from them for a similar reason.
Shipments aren't the only way to anticipate timings, however. If you aren't able to scout your opponent's build order you can usually expect them to try fight you when they are running low on natural resources, and you should also be aware of how long your own resources are going to last you and when you will need to fight for resources yourself, and decide which shipments to send accordingly. It is also important to note that some civilizations are less reliant on shipments for their timings than other civilizations, and vise versa. British, for example, tend to have a strong economy, meaning that the value of a single shipment overall will be less for them than it will be for other civilizations because it will be worth a smaller percentage of their overall income—for this reason you can usually anticipate timings from these types of civilizations based more on their natural resources than their build order. Iroquois, on the other hand, is very reliant on shipments for their timings as their economy is inherently weaker than most other civilizations due to the lack of certain economic upgrades like Steel Traps.
P.S. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment. Hopefully I'm not, and I just think that I am forgetting something because I am tired :)
You can identify timings with good scouting, usually, and respond by adapting your build. The easiest way to anticipate a timing is to attempt to scout the opponent's shipments and keep track of them; in order to do this it's important to understand the differences between different types of shipments:
1) Villager/Economic Shipments: The best times to send a villager shipment are early on (3-5+ minutes before any sort of intended "timing."), or after a timing. Villagers take longer to pay off than other shipments, because their instant resource value is essentially 0 when they arrive, but will increase infinitely over the course of the game assuming they survive and that the game lasts long enough: so you ideally want to send them in such a way that they'll gather enough resources to be equal or greater than another card at the point that you want to fight. If you try to send a villager shipment while you're pushing, your push is going to be a lot weaker with that 0 resource boost to your army value than if you sent something like 6 musketeers (600 resources). If you scout a villager shipment, it's unlikely for a push to come immediately.
Send villager shipments early in your build, or after you've pushed or gained some sort of advantage so that you can start gearing up for a 2nd timing later on in the game.
2) Resource Crates: Resource crates give you a more immediate bonus than villager shipments, and are often higher value than military shipments, but require time to gather and spend. They contribute to your build ~60 seconds after arriving. For timings, it is usually a good idea to send crates right before a military shipment or something so that you can time the spending of these resources with an immediate military shipment. It's also important to note that resource crates are more flexible than military shipments, so when scouting you should be try to be aware of what else they could be spending these resources on other than military that could delay their timing; e.g. aging/teching up, trading posts, manors/shrines/banks, fishing boats, etc.
3) Military Unit/Upgrade Shipments: Military-related shipments have a more immediate impact on the game than villager/crate shipments. They add instant resource value to your military and are great to send as you are fighting or intending to fight. If you aren't intending to attack or defend anything in the near future, you will almost always be better off sending some other sort of shipment instead so that you may have a stronger timing with one of these cards later down the road instead.
Using this information, you should usually be able to anticipate a strong or weak point in your opponent's build order, which will either indicate a timing window for you to punish them for investing in something other than military, or you will need to defend a timing from them for a similar reason.
Shipments aren't the only way to anticipate timings, however. If you aren't able to scout your opponent's build order you can usually expect them to try fight you when they are running low on natural resources, and you should also be aware of how long your own resources are going to last you and when you will need to fight for resources yourself, and decide which shipments to send accordingly. It is also important to note that some civilizations are less reliant on shipments for their timings than other civilizations, and vise versa. British, for example, tend to have a strong economy, meaning that the value of a single shipment overall will be less for them than it will be for other civilizations because it will be worth a smaller percentage of their overall income—for this reason you can usually anticipate timings from these types of civilizations based more on their natural resources than their build order. Iroquois, on the other hand, is very reliant on shipments for their timings as their economy is inherently weaker than most other civilizations due to the lack of certain economic upgrades like Steel Traps.
P.S. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but nothing is coming to mind at the moment. Hopefully I'm not, and I just think that I am forgetting something because I am tired :)
Re: Discussion over timings
5 wardogs explorer 6 MM villagers 13 guard halberdiers and lancers
oranges.
Re: Discussion over timings
It really is great when you agree with Gendarme on things.
Pay more attention to detail.
Re: Discussion over timings
I never quite understood it either, but now I do!
This will add strength to my game.
This will add strength to my game.
[Sith] - Baphomet
- Hidddy_
- Retired Contributor
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Re: Discussion over timings
Aizamk wrote:5 wardogs explorer 6 MM villagers 13 guard halberdiers and lancers
A well documented timing
De Funk
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- Crossbow
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Re: Discussion over timings
Thank you all. This was very informative. :-)
- P i k i l i c
- Howdah
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Re: Discussion over timings
Gendarme wrote:An example would be sending 1000 coin to train 10 cuirassiers from two stables, and right after sending a shipment of 3 cuirassiers. Your shipment of 3 cuirassiers will arrive almost at the same time as your 10 cuirassiers pop out of your stables
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5X_PTx8yQ
Re: Discussion over timings
To win decively, one would need to find a point in time where your civ has a decisive military advantage over the other. Trying to find this moment in time, then trying to maximize the advantage by investing a lot in military for a bit, and then pushing is what makes up a timing attack.
- JulyBurnsOrange
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Re: Discussion over timings
Hidddy_ wrote:Aizamk wrote:5 wardogs explorer 6 MM villagers 13 guard halberdiers and lancers
A well documented timing
One of my favorite games of AOE3 ever
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Re: Discussion over timings
@Mitoe nice post, but I'll explain to you more in details tomorrow what's a timing
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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- edeholland
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Re: Discussion over timings
Kaiserklein wrote:@Mitoe nice post, but I'll explain to you more in details tomorrow what's a timing
Can't wait
- Kazamkikaz
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Re: Discussion over timings
timing is when you use your resources for especific unit type/size ( sending army upgrade, army shipment or resource ship) to be eable to defend enime attack or attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess, for example Aizamk Spain timing versus Nagayumi iroque timing, Nagayumi was with intence to attack spain with big army when Aizamk hit age 3 with Spain, in this situation, Aiz dont hv alot army ( in any Spain FF case he will get some thing like 8 pikes or 4 huss and 5-10 musk vs alot tomahoucks, kanya horse etc), but the crazy Aizamk just collet alot resources and use it later (on that time) for dogs, minute man, 5 lancers, 13 guard halbardiers, villagers all this came from 1 tc in one time (timing) to be eable to destroy that iroque mass who were sieging the Aizamk tc.
Hope u understand, send 600w/8pikes or700c or what ever doesnt mean timing, timing is when and what u do with that 600w/8pikes etc
Another simple example, make 10 musk and go to attack enime when he have 5 musk and can call mm or make 20 musk and send 6 musk and go attack 30s later when enime has 10-15 musk and not resouces for mm for some reason, what is the best time ?, to know if is good time you need know what enime is doing, so need scout, unless the oponent is anti-aizamk or some aoe3 cyborg player, who always do colonial musk start in 5min of the game with french even if is playing nr game
Hope u understand, send 600w/8pikes or700c or what ever doesnt mean timing, timing is when and what u do with that 600w/8pikes etc
Another simple example, make 10 musk and go to attack enime when he have 5 musk and can call mm or make 20 musk and send 6 musk and go attack 30s later when enime has 10-15 musk and not resouces for mm for some reason, what is the best time ?, to know if is good time you need know what enime is doing, so need scout, unless the oponent is anti-aizamk or some aoe3 cyborg player, who always do colonial musk start in 5min of the game with french even if is playing nr game
Re: Discussion over timings
Kazamkikaz wrote:attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess,
Why 80%?
- Kazamkikaz
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Re: Discussion over timings
j_t_kirk wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess,
Why 80%?
just invented right now can be 100%
- Sargsyan
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Re: Discussion over timings
Kazamkikaz wrote:timing is when you use your resources for especific unit type/size ( sending army upgrade, army shipment or resource ship) to be eable to defend enime attack or attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess, for example Aizamk Spain timing versus Nagayumi iroque timing, Nagayumi was with intence to attack spain with big army when Aizamk hit age 3 with Spain, in this situation, Aiz dont hv alot army ( in any Spain FF case he will get some thing like 8 pikes or 4 huss and 5-10 musk vs alot tomahoucks, kanya horse etc), but the crazy Aizamk just collet alot resources and use it later (on that time) for dogs, minute man, 5 lancers, 13 guard halbardiers, villagers all this came from 1 tc in one time (timing) to be eable to destroy that iroque mass who were sieging the Aizamk tc.
Hope u understand, send 600w/8pikes or700c or what ever doesnt mean timing, timing is when and what u do with that 600w/8pikes etc
Another simple example, make 10 musk and go to attack enime when he have 5 musk and can call mm or make 20 musk and send 6 musk and go attack 30s later when enime has 10-15 musk and not resouces for mm for some reason, what is the best time ?, to know if is good time you need know what enime is doing, so need scout, unless the oponent is anti-aizamk or some aoe3 cyborg player, who always do colonial musk start in 5min of the game with french even if is playing nr game
I love how you spell the word "enemy"
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
- Kazamkikaz
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Re: Discussion over timings
Sargsyan wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:timing is when you use your resources for especific unit type/size ( sending army upgrade, army shipment or resource ship) to be eable to defend enemy attack or attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess, for example Aizamk Spain timing versus Nagayumi iroque timing, Nagayumi was with intence to attack spain with big army when Aizamk hit age 3 with Spain, in this situation, Aiz dont hv alot army ( in any Spain FF case he will get some thing like 8 pikes or 4 huss and 5-10 musk vs alot tomahoucks, kanya horse etc), but the crazy Aizamk just collet alot resources and use it later (on that time) for dogs, minute man, 5 lancers, 13 guard halbardiers, villagers all this came from 1 tc in one time (timing) to be eable to destroy that iroque mass who were sieging the Aizamk tc.
Hope u understand, send 600w/8pikes or700c or what ever doesnt mean timing, timing is when and what u do with that 600w/8pikes etc
Another simple example, make 10 musk and go to attack enemy when he have 5 musk and can call mm or make 20 musk and send 6 musk and go attack 30s later when enime has 10-15 musk and not resouces for mm for some reason, what is the best time ?, to know if is good time you need know what enime is doing, so need scout, unless the oponent is anti-aizamk or some aoe3 cyborg player, who always do colonial musk start in 5min of the game with french even if is playing nr game
I love how you spell the word "enemy"
rip my fucked english
- Sargsyan
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Re: Discussion over timings
Kazamkikaz wrote:Sargsyan wrote:Kazamkikaz wrote:timing is when you use your resources for especific unit type/size ( sending army upgrade, army shipment or resource ship) to be eable to defend enemy attack or attack him and turn the game in your favor with more than 80 % chance of sucess, for example Aizamk Spain timing versus Nagayumi iroque timing, Nagayumi was with intence to attack spain with big army when Aizamk hit age 3 with Spain, in this situation, Aiz dont hv alot army ( in any Spain FF case he will get some thing like 8 pikes or 4 huss and 5-10 musk vs alot tomahoucks, kanya horse etc), but the crazy Aizamk just collet alot resources and use it later (on that time) for dogs, minute man, 5 lancers, 13 guard halbardiers, villagers all this came from 1 tc in one time (timing) to be eable to destroy that iroque mass who were sieging the Aizamk tc.
Hope u understand, send 600w/8pikes or700c or what ever doesnt mean timing, timing is when and what u do with that 600w/8pikes etc
Another simple example, make 10 musk and go to attack enemy when he have 5 musk and can call mm or make 20 musk and send 6 musk and go attack 30s later when enime has 10-15 musk and not resouces for mm for some reason, what is the best time ?, to know if is good time you need know what enime is doing, so need scout, unless the oponent is anti-aizamk or some aoe3 cyborg player, who always do colonial musk start in 5min of the game with french even if is playing nr game
I love how you spell the word "enemy"
rip my fucked english
Its ok bro,your english is quite good
krichk wrote:For some reason, you want the world to know that you're brave enough to challenge Challenger_Marco
Re: Discussion over timings
oranges.
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