explorer fast shooting

No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

only some explorers can use it though. so it's just bs to say its fair. I don't think it's THAT big of a deal. because it's not that helpful. but let's not pretend it's all cool, shall we.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:only some explorers can use it though. so it's just bs to say its fair. I don't think it's THAT big of a deal. because it's not that helpful. but let's not pretend it's all cool, shall we.

The only civs that can't use it are China, Aztecs, Sioux and India.
The first two have the cover mode abuse to make it even, Sioux doesn't have reasons to complain about age 1, so I guess India is the only civ that suffers from that change.
I don't pretend it's all cool, used with monitors it becomes lame but honestly, with explorers vs treasures and even vs other explorers it's fun to me.
That's my opinion and it's worth what it's worth but still one should respect it.

The nootka laming can kill 1 vill, deny a fb and even kill a fb sometimes, thus straight up ending the game, and it's a much bigger issue to me.
Still it hasn't been nerfed because the people who decide find it cool.
I guess what's fun really depends on people.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: explorer fast shooting

  • Quote

Post by Mitoe »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:You did. For garja a bug is by definition cheating, and thus shouldn't be used.

Not really interested in participating in the bulk of this discussion, but bug abuse--particularly of bugs that can be potentially game-changing or game-breaking, such as Alt D--is definitely cheating. In most modern games bug abuse is a reportable & bannable offense because it ruins the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players.

I would argue that Alt D and Crackshot Cancelling are both game-breaking bugs and therefore cheating, and that it would ruin the experience for most players, but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it. Most of my thoughts on the matter are in the other thread, anyway.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user »

Mitoe wrote:but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it.

Pretty much why Irony has become King on the internet.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Mitoe »

Yeah, it's why I usually avoid these discussions. And balance discussions.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You did. For garja a bug is by definition cheating, and thus shouldn't be used.

Not really interested in participating in the bulk of this discussion, but bug abuse--particularly of bugs that can be potentially game-changing or game-breaking, such as Alt D--is definitely cheating. In most modern games bug abuse is a reportable & bannable offense because it ruins the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players.

I would argue that Alt D and Crackshot Cancelling are both game-breaking bugs and therefore cheating, and that it would ruin the experience for most players, but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it. Most of my thoughts on the matter are in the other thread, anyway.

Well I would argue that crackshot cancelling isn't a game-breaking bug.
I do know too that nobody is going to change his mind here, and that's why I'm not trying to prove I'm right. I just think that we should respect people who have a different opinion, instead of saying they're «dumb cheaters» because they have different opinions.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You did. For garja a bug is by definition cheating, and thus shouldn't be used.

Not really interested in participating in the bulk of this discussion, but bug abuse--particularly of bugs that can be potentially game-changing or game-breaking, such as Alt D--is definitely cheating. In most modern games bug abuse is a reportable & bannable offense because it ruins the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players.

I would argue that Alt D and Crackshot Cancelling are both game-breaking bugs and therefore cheating, and that it would ruin the experience for most players, but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it. Most of my thoughts on the matter are in the other thread, anyway.

Well I would argue that crackshot cancelling isn't a game-breaking bug.
I do know too that nobody is going to change his mind here, and that's why I'm not trying to prove I'm right. I just think that we should respect people who have a different opinion, instead of saying they're «dumb cheaters» because they have different opinions.

At this point I've eclipsed disrespecting your opinion and jumped straight to the persona as a whole. Can't really care less about allowable aoe mechanics tbh.
User avatar
Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 817
Joined: Apr 16, 2017
ESO: HUMMAN

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by HUMMAN »

Arent you pretty much dumb cheaters? Dydd uses alt d with japan, which is lamer than your nootka rush. Tit used fast shooting in tourney, i am %100 certain he knew rules, but he played the stupid. And people know your history. I have nothing with you in personal, but if community has a opinion over you, that may be because of your very behaviours. People could have respected you as marginal players if you held your lines.
Image
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 4276
Joined: Dec 28, 2016
ESO: Snuden
Location: Costa del Baphomet

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Snuden »

Let's all be friends and unite around the game we all love!
[Sith] - Baphomet
Great Britain InsectPoison
Lancer
Posts: 970
Joined: Mar 6, 2016

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by InsectPoison »

moesbar hack is a game feature, sir_musket told me so
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

HUMMAN wrote:Arent you pretty much dumb cheaters? Dydd uses alt d with japan, which is lamer than your nootka rush. Tit used fast shooting in tourney, i am %100 certain he knew rules, but he played the stupid. And people know your history. I have nothing with you in personal, but if community has a opinion over you, that may be because of your very behaviours. People could have respected you as marginal players if you held your lines.

Well no, alt d with japan is not lamer than nootka lame.

By the way, keep in mind that this «history» has started with me getting permanently banned for having a different opinion about starting crates.
It's always been like that, you don't have the right to disagree.
User avatar
United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3409
Joined: Aug 20, 2016
ESO: _H2O

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by _H2O »

I said this three pages ago but try doing it with a monitor and then try making an arguement where it doesn’t ruin the game
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

_H2O wrote:I said this three pages ago but try doing it with a monitor and then try making an arguement where it doesn’t ruin the game

Monitor is an issue, the explorer isn't.

You could just ban it for monitors if it's the only issue.
User avatar
Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 4513
Joined: Mar 31, 2015
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Clan: WPact

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by EAGLEMUT »

How about iro explorer who can use it against regular military units without needing a treasure?
Image
momuuu wrote: ↑theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

Mitoe wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:You did. For garja a bug is by definition cheating, and thus shouldn't be used.

Not really interested in participating in the bulk of this discussion, but bug abuse--particularly of bugs that can be potentially game-changing or game-breaking, such as Alt D--is definitely cheating. In most modern games bug abuse is a reportable & bannable offense because it ruins the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players.

I would argue that Alt D and Crackshot Cancelling are both game-breaking bugs and therefore cheating, and that it would ruin the experience for most players, but I've learned that trying to change someone else's opinion with my own opinion is almost never worth my time, and also never succeeds, so I'm not going to bother making an argument for it. Most of my thoughts on the matter are in the other thread, anyway.

No, no, just no. Bug abuse is not definitely cheating. Please actually enlighten yourself and look at countless games were weird buggy behaviour is being abused without being considered cheating.

Read this: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Glitch
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:Arent you pretty much dumb cheaters? Dydd uses alt d with japan, which is lamer than your nootka rush. Tit used fast shooting in tourney, i am %100 certain he knew rules, but he played the stupid. And people know your history. I have nothing with you in personal, but if community has a opinion over you, that may be because of your very behaviours. People could have respected you as marginal players if you held your lines.

Well no, alt d with japan is not lamer than nootka lame.

By the way, keep in mind that this «history» has started with me getting permanently banned for having a different opinion about starting crates.
It's always been like that, you don't have the right to disagree.



obviously it is. u can kill a nootka... cant kill explorer. if u kill the xplorers u halt the boom. nootka at best kills a vil, but that shouldnt even happen.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

EAGLEMUT wrote:How about iro explorer who can use it against regular military units without needing a treasure?

It isn't really good because the other units can just kill the iro explorer (and he's the first unit you want to kill anyway), and it means that he can't use his special ability.
All in all, I'm not even sure it is better, and even if it is slightly better, then it rewards the Iro player for microing his explorer.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:Arent you pretty much dumb cheaters? Dydd uses alt d with japan, which is lamer than your nootka rush. Tit used fast shooting in tourney, i am %100 certain he knew rules, but he played the stupid. And people know your history. I have nothing with you in personal, but if community has a opinion over you, that may be because of your very behaviours. People could have respected you as marginal players if you held your lines.

Well no, alt d with japan is not lamer than nootka lame.

By the way, keep in mind that this «history» has started with me getting permanently banned for having a different opinion about starting crates.
It's always been like that, you don't have the right to disagree.



obviously it is. u can kill a nootka... cant kill explorer. if u kill the xplorers u halt the boom. nootka at best kills a vil, but that shouldnt even happen.

I agree that alt d as Japan can be lame, but still it's not as game changing as a nootka laming.
First you can kill the jap explorer multiple time which gives you a lot of exp.
And losing an explorer hurts, but it's not the end of the game either: you have the other one, and you can build shrines with vills too.
Now if you're playing Russia and can't fb because of the Nootka against France, or if you lose your warhut as Iro, the game ends berfore 5min.
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by deleted_user0 »

iro should never lose warhut to nootka. and for russia it can be an issue, but not one they cant deal with. can mm the fb anyway. more effective than a nootka, which should only the delay the blockhouse or damage it. anyway, you can do whatever u want in qs. and ppl can think whatever they want about it.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by momuuu »

Kaiserklein wrote:
momuuu wrote:So, then, onto the point: theres plenty of weird behaviour in aoe3 that people use frequently to their advantage. For some reason, tricks regarding the explorer are all being blindly put in the book of cheating because their are 'bug exploits' which apperantly are the same as cheats - at least according to people here. Yet, the weird thing about this is that in tons of other games bugs are often considered first before banning them. Sometimes a buggy interaction turns out to actually be beneficial to gameplay. Look for example at scourge tracking in broodwar or wall pillars in age of empires 2. Some bugs are considered bad for gameplay, for example because they disturb balance or make the game without a doubt less fun. For example, in dark souls 1 there is a bug that allows you to buff a weapon that you shouldnt be able to buff, which disrupts balancing. There are tons of examples of buggy or weird interactions that probably werent quite intentional amd have found their way into gaming. Its sad that the aoe3 community selectively decides alt d and this bug are cheats because abusing bugs is per definition cheating - a statement that is simply straight up false.

Instead, one should actively discuss if this necessarily is a bad bug. If macro abuse is ignored, I actually think its fine. Cool in the early game and way too hard to do in larger fights. Honestly, if my opponent could use this in a serious fight to his advantage Id praise him because that seems like an awesome display of skill.

So you just posted your stuff without reading the topic I guess? People did talk about why these are "bad bugs".

I think I got the two seperate topics confused.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:iro should never lose warhut to nootka. and for russia it can be an issue, but not one they cant deal with. can mm the fb anyway. more effective than a nootka, which should only the delay the blockhouse or damage it. anyway, you can do whatever u want in qs. and ppl can think whatever they want about it.

I did lose my warhut to a nootka in the past.
The difference between the nootka and minutemen is that minutemen are super expensive, while the nootka is free, and that you can only mm once in a game, which is a big deal.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

It is big deal no matter what and the fact that someone doesn't realize it and keeps arguing even is the reason why his opinion doesn't deserve any respect.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:It is big deal no matter what and the fact that someone doesn't realize it and keeps arguing even is the reason why his opinion doesn't deserve any respect.

Says Garja, the guy who hasn't said anything right and interesting about balance for almost 3 years...
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by Garja »

That's what you say. I claim the exact opposite.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: explorer fast shooting

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:That's what you say. I claim the exact opposite.

Honestly you shouldn't have started with that lol, because while I apparently have a reputation of being a bug user, you are the biggest meme in the aoe3 history, and it's common knowledge that your opinion about the game is bs.

At least when I claim you're wrong (which I don't here, I believe there's no objective truth about abuses), I prove it, you just claim that my opinion is worthless because you have different one.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV