Cheaters blacklist poll

Should we have a cheaters blacklist on ESOC ?

Yes
89
82%
No
19
18%
 
Total votes: 108

France Kaiserklein
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Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Kaiserklein »

Two other topics about this :
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6998
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6948

Microsoft isn't active and won't ban any cheaters, yet there are a lot of those on ESO. So I think it would be a good idea to at least have a blacklist where we add all cheaters we find. Of course solid proofs would be required, such as recs, streams, or screenshots. There would most likely be some sort of "council" who would judge the cheating accusations, and add the cheater to the list only if those proofs are 100% reliable. Accusing cheaters outside of this list, on ESOC forums, would still be forbidden, to avoid flame wars and false accusations. So basically it would be like now, except people would be able to actually warn other ESOC users of certain cheaters, via the blacklist.

Why not host it outside ESOC ?
Because ESOC is the place where most aoe players meet, therefore it is the most relevant place for a blacklist to be settled. Hosting it on another website would reach less people.

Who would be managing this blacklist ?
Either mods if they want to (but it really looks like they don't) or anyone else that would be allowed to do so by ESOC, such as myself or any other volunteers I guess.

Isn't it going to give cheaters the attention they seek ?
Not really, a vast majority of cheaters are trying to cheat without getting spotted, because they want to be considered as good players, at least from what I've seen. Today again, a cheater that I won't name because I don't want this post to be redacted joined our 2v2 with Hazza and Umeu. So I told him we won't play with a cheater, and he denied he cheated. He's trying to hide, basically. Yet I have screenshots of him having 7 vils at 35 seconds of game as russia, and 132 free units in a 20 min game where he stayed colonial.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask below. ESOC probably won't tolerate that blacklist even if there is a large majority of "yes", because they don't consider that the community is mature enough to judge what is good for itself. But it's still worth a try I guess.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by sdsanft »

Kaiserklein wrote:Why not host it outside ESOC ?
Because ESOC is the place where most aoe players meet, therefore it is the most relevant place for a blacklist to be settled. Hosting it on another website would reach less people.

Anybody who will actually use a bl will be willing to go to another website/software program to do so. I 100% understand why you want one and agree with a lot of what you say but I simply don't understand why you insist that it must be on ESOC, when the mods have already stated they don't want it here and the same service is already available in other places.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Note that every people in the team would have to agree about one being a cheater.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by zoom »

While I welcome a vote and even the initiative itself – provided that certain conditions are met – it is unfortunate that the poll asks the question without defining in sufficient detail some of the most pressing conditions. I am worried that the result of the poll will be somewhat tainted because of this.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Kaiserklein »

zoom wrote:While I welcome a vote and even the initiative itself – provided that certain conditions are met – it is unfortunate that the poll asks the question without defining in sufficient detail some of the most pressing conditions. I am worried that the result of the poll will be somewhat tainted because of this.

Lol what else do you want to add ? I already made a pretty detailed post

sdsanft wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Why not host it outside ESOC ?
Because ESOC is the place where most aoe players meet, therefore it is the most relevant place for a blacklist to be settled. Hosting it on another website would reach less people.

Anybody who will actually use a bl will be willing to go to another website/software program to do so. I 100% understand why you want one and agree with a lot of what you say but I simply don't understand why you insist that it must be on ESOC, when the mods have already stated they don't want it here and the same service is already available in other places.

I believe that some people would go check the bl wherever it is, yes. However, a lot of people are more passive, and while they would be interested by a bl if they see one, I'm not sure they would go check for it on another website than esoc.
It's just like I'm sure a bunch of players would play the ep if it was easier, if you could find more games mostly. With only a small effort from each of us to host on ep, it would already be a success. But it doesn't work that way, many people are too lazy or passive (and I'm not blaming anyone, I myself still play a lot on RE). It's the exact same for a BL, a lot of people wouldn't even notice there is a BL if it isn't hosted on esoc imo.
Also it would be super easy to settle that BL here on esoc, where we already have a working website and a larger playerbase. Where else do you suggest I create that BL ? It would have to be a place where people can pm me with proof etc.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by gibson »

zoom wrote:While I welcome a vote and even the initiative itself – provided that certain conditions are met – it is unfortunate that the poll asks the question without defining in sufficient detail some of the most pressing conditions. I am worried that the result of the poll will be somewhat tainted because of this.
It might taint your taint
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Papist »

If you really wanted an accurate result, you would have presented both the pros and cons of a blacklist rather than listing the pros and criticizing the con side for not agreeing.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Ashvin »

Papist wrote:If you really wanted an accurate result, you would have presented both the pros and cons of a blacklist.


Does it even matter? Would you even consider making one if majority votes for it?
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Papist »

Octanium wrote:
Papist wrote:If you really wanted an accurate result, you would have presented both the pros and cons of a blacklist.


Does it even matter? Would you even consider making one if majority votes for it?


It's not my decision to make.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by _NiceKING_ »

There are at the moment 30 moesbar hackers whose names are publicly available on the blacklist of ESO-Assistant.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Ashvin »

Papist wrote:
Octanium wrote:
Papist wrote:If you really wanted an accurate result, you would have presented both the pros and cons of a blacklist.


Does it even matter? Would you even consider making one if majority votes for it?


It's not my decision to make.


I doubt the existence of this post if it were your decision to make.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Papist »

Octanium wrote:
Papist wrote:
Show hidden quotes


It's not my decision to make.


I doubt the existence of this post if it were your decision to make.


I could have easily deleted this poll, but I chose not to because it doesn't do any harm.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by zoom »

Papist wrote:If you really wanted an accurate result, you would have presented both the pros and cons of a blacklist rather than listing the pros and criticizing the con side for not agreeing.
That would have been good too, but I think voter understanding of the actual subject of the vote is even more essential.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Ashvin »

Papist wrote:
Octanium wrote:
Show hidden quotes


I doubt the existence of this post if it were your decision to make.


I could have easily deleted this poll, but I chose not to because it doesn't do any harm.


I think you don't get it. Point is, Kaiser would not have created this poll at the first place if you had to make the decision of bl. I don't think bl idea will be even welcomed by the mods. But its better y'all know how many people (apparently non-cheaters) you are disappointing for a group of retards you are sensitive to.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by zoom »

Frankly, whether mods like it is as relevant as whether anyone else likes it. The issue is whether ESOC allows it.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by zoom »

Kaiserklein wrote:
zoom wrote:While I welcome a vote and even the initiative itself – provided that certain conditions are met – it is unfortunate that the poll asks the question without defining in sufficient detail some of the most pressing conditions. I am worried that the result of the poll will be somewhat tainted because of this.

Lol what else do you want to add ? I already made a pretty detailed post
I don't what to add anything in particular as I have no suggestion on what the details should be; you – making the poll and general explanation – might. What I mean is that, while you did sufficiently explain the concept and purpose of the suggestion, you omitted to propose any actual definitions for the composition and procedure of "the council." I am of the opinion that, without knowing the specific conditions of these, it is difficult to know whether one is for or against the suggestion, since they are integral to the challenges that the feature would bring with it.

By no means am I saying that the poll is invalid as a result of the above. It should still offer a general indication of ESOC users' attitude with regards to a feature of this kind.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Kaiserklein »

Lol I didn't say much about that "council" because I basically don't know yet. It would also mostly depend on what esoc decides. I really can't say much about that. Would probs be a council of a few trustworthy playes, and a cheater would be added to the bl only if 100% of this council agrees.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by Papist »

Octanium wrote:I think you don't get it. Point is, Kaiser would not have created this poll at the first place if you had to make the decision of bl. I don't think bl idea will be even welcomed by the mods. But its better y'all know how many people (apparently non-cheaters) you are disappointing for a group of retards you are sensitive to.


Lol...Nobody is against the BL out of sympathy for cheaters.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by rickytickitembo »

I just want to point out that about 80 percent of the people who voted 'no' are probably cheaters themselves.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by gibson »

rickytickitembo wrote:I just want to point out that about 80 percent of the people who voted 'no' are probably cheaters themselves.
if you were to filter out cheaters and mods from the poll it would probably be like 90/10 lol
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by sdsanft »

rickytickitembo wrote:I just want to point out that about 80 percent of the people who voted 'no' are probably cheaters themselves.

No not really, they're just people who like ESOC the way it is and think if someone wants a bl they can make/find it somewhere else.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by sdsanft »

Kaiserklein wrote:
sdsanft wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Why not host it outside ESOC ?
Because ESOC is the place where most aoe players meet, therefore it is the most relevant place for a blacklist to be settled. Hosting it on another website would reach less people.

Anybody who will actually use a bl will be willing to go to another website/software program to do so. I 100% understand why you want one and agree with a lot of what you say but I simply don't understand why you insist that it must be on ESOC, when the mods have already stated they don't want it here and the same service is already available in other places.

I believe that some people would go check the bl wherever it is, yes. However, a lot of people are more passive, and while they would be interested by a bl if they see one, I'm not sure they would go check for it on another website than esoc.
It's just like I'm sure a bunch of players would play the ep if it was easier, if you could find more games mostly. With only a small effort from each of us to host on ep, it would already be a success. But it doesn't work that way, many people are too lazy or passive (and I'm not blaming anyone, I myself still play a lot on RE). It's the exact same for a BL, a lot of people wouldn't even notice there is a BL if it isn't hosted on esoc imo.
Also it would be super easy to settle that BL here on esoc, where we already have a working website and a larger playerbase. Where else do you suggest I create that BL ? It would have to be a place where people can pm me with proof etc.

I still don't understand. It is just as hard to type eso-community.net into your browser as it it to type aoe3blacklist.example.com into your browser. Anyone who is actually going to use it will know where to find it. Its just as easy to share with other players as well. whats the problem?
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by KINGofOsmane »

fucking yes
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by zoom »

sdsanft wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I believe that some people would go check the bl wherever it is, yes. However, a lot of people are more passive, and while they would be interested by a bl if they see one, I'm not sure they would go check for it on another website than esoc.
It's just like I'm sure a bunch of players would play the ep if it was easier, if you could find more games mostly. With only a small effort from each of us to host on ep, it would already be a success. But it doesn't work that way, many people are too lazy or passive (and I'm not blaming anyone, I myself still play a lot on RE). It's the exact same for a BL, a lot of people wouldn't even notice there is a BL if it isn't hosted on esoc imo.
Also it would be super easy to settle that BL here on esoc, where we already have a working website and a larger playerbase. Where else do you suggest I create that BL ? It would have to be a place where people can pm me with proof etc.

I still don't understand. It is just as hard to type eso-community.net into your browser as it it to type aoe3blacklist.example.com into your browser. Anyone who is actually going to use it will know where to find it. Its just as easy to share with other players as well. whats the problem?
Improving the organization of the community is always beneficial when it is so small in size.

Besides, a feature such as this is free, great exposure for ESOC.
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Re: Cheaters blacklist poll

Post by giveuanxiety »

I was saying the same thing a while back. There shouldn't even be any debate I don't get it. Obviously it would be nice to have a black list of people that are 100% proof cheaters so we all have the heads ups to watch out for them and can have them on our pest list. I remember a month or two back when I would play one game a week or something irregular like that. Once I came online went quicksearch and got some guy making free units in 4 mins and then found again in qs and same thing. I closed game and stopped playing for 2 weeks. I'm sure that happens to other people, especially people that are more casual with the game. Cheaters will make real players quit the game. By having a blacklist everyone can add these cheaters to pest list which then makes it harder for cheaters to find games and they will quit or play less frequently due to increased time attempting to find a game.
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