Trump's Executive Order

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Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

Notice: this thread has nothing to do with Trump as a person but rather the policy him and his administration are putting into the books. I intend this thread to be informative and invoke debate, not flaming and name calling such as "racist" etc. :hehe:

First,
Not once in the Executive Order does it state anything about Muslims or the religion of Islam. Also, these are all countries that Obama and past presidents have labeled as highly dangerous and should be warranted as a danger to the US and modern society as a whole. State funded terrorist organizations such as Hezbollah, Al Qaeda or Hamas borderline thrive in these nations.

Secondly,
Where was the uproar when Obama temporarily banned many Iraqi refugees from coming to the States for six months in 2011? It is nearly not as big as a policy as Trump's but, it still fits the criteria of "banning Muslims" that people claim is happening.

Not to mention....any other individuals with religious practices not of the Islamic faith living in these temporarily banned countries are not allowed entrance just like any Islamic individual. Any Muslim in India, Indonesia, etc. which by the way, are two of the most populous countries in regards to Islamic followers, are not included in this policy. Clearly this is not a ban on Muslims but rather, a way of reorganizing the US's National Security. It is not the current administration's fault that some of the most dangerous countries in the world have large populations of Islamic followers (not implying that Islam is the reason for this). Places this dangerous should be handled with extreme caution and a ninety day ban is not the end of immigrant freedom in the United States.

This is a regional ban. It is very unfortunate for the people living in those countries but where do you draw the line? National Security is important and there are other methods of helping refugees escape this terrible predicament. For example, setting up peace camps in countries like UAE, Kuwait, Turkey, Jordan, etc. The United Nations and other teams and organizations should and have been on top of this.

I am not against helping refugees by any means but, what Trump is doing is not an attack on anything Islamic or any religion for that matter. Read the damn Executive Order and think about why he is doing this. He and everyone else in the field of National Security and Intelligence work that are going through with this are not stupid. These places are extremely dangerous and this is a matter of reorganizing the vetting and security sector which have been working on overload this past decade. This is not a hate on immigrants and in particular, Muslims. Think.

Think and do not organize your thoughts of off the news. And by news I mean Fox, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Breitbart, New York Times or any others. Research and find the information outside of these ruinous corporations; it is out there.

Thank you for reading :uglylol:

Sincerely,

Vardar
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by evilcheadar »

Nice work Vardar, I think places like Canada will suffer the consequences for reflexively importing refugees just because of what Trump is doing.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

He banned legal US citizens from entering the country. That's unconstitutional and highly racist given the fact it was based solely on their country of origin being predominantly Muslim in faith.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by evilcheadar »

n0el wrote:He banned legal US citizens from entering the country. That's unconstitutional and highly racist given the fact it was based solely on their country of origin being predominantly Muslim in faith.

It doesn't apply to US citizens. Not even sure it applies to those with dual citizenship.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

Sorry. Legal residents.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

And that's just the legality. The policy is just bad and doesn't make sense.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

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Post by vardar »

n0el wrote:And that's just the legality. The policy is just bad and doesn't make sense.



I just stated how it makes sense....

The Middle East is a scary place whether you want to agree with it or not. It doesn't matter what religion or ethnicity you follow...if you are from those countries you will have to wait 90 days. Unfortunately 90 days is enough time for one to get shot, raped, beheaded, stoned, mutilated or any other common method of death over there. That is why I said there has to be other ways to save lives.

It really does make sense if you think about it and have a novice grasp of the geopolitics.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

Well, sure the Middle East is a scary place. So are many other places in the world. It would be easier to believe that the ban isn't targeted at Islam as you've said if candidate trump didn't advocate for that, repeatably mention radical Islam in speeches on the topic and have his public mouthpieces like Rudy pretty much say it's a ban on Muslims. The reason it doesn't include other countries like Saudi Arabia (which is where almost all foreign terrorists have come from) is because trump doesn't have the balls to cross an ally and business partner.

Regardless of the opinion above. How can it be good policy when appearances are anti Islam and an attack on Islam. This plays right into what IS is selling and poses a very legitimate threat of radicalizing youths in the country. Which by the way is a much bigger concern and a proven history (see Orlando, fort hood, San bernadino).
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

n0el wrote:Well, sure the Middle East is a scary place. So are many other places in the world. It would be easier to believe that the ban isn't targeted at Islam as you've said if candidate trump didn't advocate for that, repeatably mention radical Islam in speeches on the topic and have his public mouthpieces like Rudy pretty much say it's a ban on Muslims. The reason it doesn't include other countries like Saudi Arabia (which is where almost all foreign terrorists have come from) is because trump doesn't have the balls to cross an ally and business partner.

Regardless of the opinion above. How can it be good policy when appearances are anti Islam and an attack on Islam. This plays right into what IS is selling and poses a very legitimate threat of radicalizing youths in the country. Which by the way is a much bigger concern and a proven history (see Orlando, fort hood, San bernadino).


He explicitly said we need to strengthen our border. And yes, of course he will say radical Islam because it is a legitimate threat just like any other extremest group whether it be religiously affiliated or not.

What is going on is a complicated situation to the extreme. Everyday there are millions of papers, e-mails, phone calls and meetings regarding National Security that normal people are completely deaf to. It is not as easy as "You can come in and you cannot." It takes an organized and efficient method of operations in order to haggle all that is circulating; whether it be immigration, foreign intelligence or domestic and countless other areas.

And yes, the Saudi Arabia exemption is questionable but, it is such a complicated scenario that we cannot grasp 90% of what goes on in this realm. It is like a web of strings going every which direction, all connecting, disconnecting or merging.

The scary part is the lack of understatement of such matters but it takes many years of working in the field to understand. Something 95% of people do not have time or interest for.

Word of advice: do not postulate ideas from the news unless it is about how the local fair is having an extra set of llamas on display this year or some stupid shit like that :devilrazz:

Edit: You will always here ridiculous things in the news whether it be true or not. But, what Trump is doing, and he has clearly stated so, is that the US needs to reorganize and attack this problem with efficiency. Something that apparently hasn't been happening according to the FBI and other domestic organizations and Think Tanks.

Also, he recently gave the Pentagon a number of days to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS. Literally one week in and he is doing all this. He has done more actual action than most POTUS do in their first year. Whether you deem what he has done good or bad, he has so far been a President of action.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

I'm giving my own opinion based on observations of history and the actions of the administration. You obviously would rather sacrifice integrity for safety, that's fine...your opinion. You are free to it and to CPI voice it.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

n0el wrote:I'm giving my own opinion based on observations of history and the actions of the administration. You obviously would rather sacrifice integrity for safety, that's fine...your opinion. You are free to it and to CPI voice it.


Integrity? The Executive Order clearly does not corner Islam or any other religion. Danger is danger. And like I said, there is integrity in wanting to save lives and help others (why I motioned towards other ideas to save lives over there), around the world but also protecting your own country is quite important.

If the Middle East was all Christianity or Hindu but yet still as violent as it is, then ofc the same outcome would happen.

If you make observations, then observe what the actual Executive Order states about the imposed ban and not what these mainstream media corps put out as unbiased casting. :biggrin:
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

I am basing it on what it says. I have no issue allowing refugees from those countries or any other country into the US. I am willing to take a very small risk to stand up for the values on which this country was founded. I could give a shit less what CNN or Fox or dredge or whoever says.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

n0el wrote:I am basing it on what it says. I have no issue allowing refugees from those countries or any other country into the US. I am willing to take a very small risk to stand up for the values on which this country was founded. I could give a shit less what CNN or Fox or dredge or whoever says.


This is 90 days, not an eternal ban. He and the thousands of employees, or what could plausibly be labeled as advisers, working for the Federal Government are not just coming up with this stuff just to corner and disrupt Muslims. Makes absolutely no sense to the Administration and people like me :hmm:

If you are basing your opinion on what it says, then why do you insist it is a ban on a religion when in reality, the Order makes no explicit or implicit litigation towards that? It simply gives the US a time frame to regroup and assess and correct the situation.

If he really wanted to be a complete ass, he would ban the countries of Indonesia and India forever. :mrgreen:
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

India is 80% Hindi so good try.

Like I said. It's my opinion. 90 days is too many days, and realistically the 90 days is a precursor of what's too come through legislation. I believe the country should be open armed to all people, especially refugees, regardless of region or religion.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

n0el wrote:India is 80% Hindi so good try.

Like I said. It's my opinion. 90 days is too many days, and realistically the 90 days is a precursor of what's too come through legislation. I believe the country should be open armed to all people, especially refugees, regardless of region or religion.



Do you know the population of India? Did you know India has the second largest Muslim population in the world?
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... s-map.html

Yes, I respect that opinion and also want to embrace people from all walks of life but also would like to do it in a safe as possible way. Trump is not a dictator, he is already bringing jobs and security back to US. Look at the Stock Market (All-time highest in history) and the housing market. People seem to think the guy is trying to rule the world or at least make it as miserable as possible. England (thanks to Theresa May), Russia, Israel and others are reaching out in order to strike better relationships and strike down terrorism...and others could well be worried because he is actually going to attempt to correct the unbalanced trade deficits between them and the US (Mexico and China in particular).

He has already passed actions to cease Federal hiring for the time being, which has been way too high. He is acting out to shrink lobbyist's role in government and separate politics from the market like it should be.

I was never and still am not a Trump enthusiast meaning he was by far not my first choice in the GOP (he has said some strange things) but so far what he has done and plans on doing is partially to my liking. He is our President after all.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

vardar wrote:
n0el wrote:India is 80% Hindi so good try.

Like I said. It's my opinion. 90 days is too many days, and realistically the 90 days is a precursor of what's too come through legislation. I believe the country should be open armed to all people, especially refugees, regardless of region or religion.



Do you know the population of India? Did you know India has the second largest Muslim population in the world?
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... s-map.html

Yes, I respect that opinion and also want to embrace people from all walks of life but also would like to do it in a safe as possible way. Trump is not a dictator, he is already bringing jobs and security back to US. Look at the Stock Market (All-time highest in history) and the housing market. People seem to think the guy is trying to rule the world or at least make it as miserable as possible. England (thanks to Theresa May), Russia, Israel and others are reaching out in order to strike better relationships and strike down terrorism...and others could well be worried because he is actually going to attempt to correct the unbalanced trade deficits between them and the US (Mexico and China in particular).

He has already passed actions to cease Federal hiring for the time being, which has been way too high. He is acting out to shrink lobbyist's role in government and separate politics from the market like it should be.

I was never and still am not a Trump enthusiast meaning he was by far not my first choice in the GOP (he has said some strange things) but so far what he has done and plans on doing is partially to my liking. He is our President after all.


Agree to disagree!

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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by n0el »

Just came to say the same :flowers:
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by momuuu »

I think n0el is superior at agreeing to disagree though.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by vardar »

Jerom wrote:I think n0el is superior at agreeing to disagree though.


Agree to agree there! :grin:
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

I think its fair to say that the US media has created a chain of "chinese whispers".

Pretty much everything that comes out of that clown's mouth gets blown out of proportion and he has no control of it whatsoever. Not to mention all these liberal or whatever who are still salty that he won. All these people really care about are getting Trump impeached. Whether people like it or not the places that have had a ban are at risk areas (Yes I've seen the map). I'm not surprised there was a ban at all. If there would be any risk to my country with importing refugees I would say the same. For people saying that Saudi Arabia should get a ban, because why not it's also Islam (once again all those feminists/liberals/cringe), then they need to get their head out of their bottom and realize just how important Saudi is.

It's not so much the ban than is causing chaos it is how it has been implemented. I mean he did promise this stuff during elections. Are people really so dumb as to think he would not go through with it? Seriously who didn't expect this. Like come on, it's Trump.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by Goodspeed »

vardar wrote:Yes, I respect that opinion and also want to embrace people from all walks of life
I'd say it's likely Trump doesn't agree with you on this. Of course the EO itself wouldn't state that what's happening is more than a safety measure but going by Trump's earlier statements it seems sensible to be reading between the lines a little, don't you agree?

One thing struck me as odd about this. Why did they have to go through the process of the attorney general refusing the order and Trump then firing her, instead of discussing it beforehand? Or maybe they did and she refused to step down. Seems to me that Trump, perhaps on account of his narcissism and probably to his detriment, isn't really playing the game, which means a lot of fun headlines for us. ^_^
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by Ashvin »

vardar wrote:Do you know the population of India? Did you know India has the second largest Muslim population in the world?
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-te ... s-map.html

That data is wrong. It says India has more Muslims than Pakistan, you kidding?
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Btw nice post, I like people talking about politics, wish we had more Indians to discuss about Narendra Modi too.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by deleted_user0 »

i dont see why it would be wrong, india has like 1.1 billion people. pakistan has 180 million. ofcourse the percentage is much higher in pakistan, but that doesn't say anything about the actual numbers.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by Ashvin »

umeu wrote:i dont see why it would be wrong, india has like 1.1 billion people. pakistan has 180 million. ofcourse the percentage is much higher in pakistan, but that doesn't say anything about the actual numbers.

It's not about number, it's the percentage.
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Re: Trump's Executive Order

Post by momuuu »

Indonesia is the country with the most muslims though. That has always been a slightly surprising fact to me.

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