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by momuuu
25 Jan 2019, 18:27
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

I think it might be good if you tried to understand what I wrote down.
by momuuu
25 Jan 2019, 15:54
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Goodspeed wrote:2 things on that. First, the AoE2 AI doesn't stand a chance against top level players. It's not close. Second, there's a very big difference between hard coding strategic concepts and build orders, and having the AI learn them itself. The fact that the AI got this good without hard c .....
by momuuu
25 Jan 2019, 10:49
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

I was reminded of aoe2's AI though. That AI is hardcoded but very competent and strategically pretty good actually, without getting any resource hacks. If this AI was toned down apm wise, I'd start to wonder how much of an upgrade it actually was compared to a 'state of the art' AI (programmed by on .....

by momuuu
25 Jan 2019, 10:26
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

So in the tenth game rotterdam even remarked the micro was not humanly possible. That was a bit unfortunate because it overshadowed the AIs strategical competence. In the end they failed to properly model human apm in my opinion. If they can improve this model by trying to analyze a human's actual e .....

by momuuu
25 Jan 2019, 00:38
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

_H2O wrote:That AI is very impressive. If it can get to this level you can imagine it can go further no problem.

Some things are odd but still work. For example it seems to value presaturating before expanding. But to always be well marcoed and to make the combat decisions it is making is very impre .....
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 21:16
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Goodspeed wrote:
momuuu wrote:So eh, so far I honestly just feel like the AI was overtuned in the mechanical department. It hasn't truly seemed to show extremely intelligent play.

Imo the problem is that it's effective apm is way higher than that of a pro gamer, even if the apm is comparable.
Agree. Fu .....
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 20:29
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

Honestly, it just seemed like a strategically mediocre player now that I consider it. I think I have more understanding of the game but I can't really make things work because I don't have 270 epm. I mean the midgame oracles were just straight up stupid and I think anyone in gold/platinum understand .....

by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 20:24
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

I thought the move to attack with stalkers in the natural while going in the main with the oracle was a very 'human' move that seems based on human limitations. This AI might still be a bit overtuned though, as it still has about 270 EPM which is insane. Also apperantly playing effectively for 200 y .....

by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 20:17
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Now without zoom hack, AlphaStar got molested by mana. And mana is probably like top50.

Yes, that proves our points right. The zoom hack and apm were overtuned.

The AI looked like a super strong player though that did some things really well. .....
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 20:00
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

So if you tuned out, they're doing an AI that actually has to manipulate the camera. So now zoom hack coming in now.
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 19:58
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
momuuu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:This is just lame. The AI just makes full stalkers and wins because perfect macro in sc2 means that you don't lose a single unit.

Yes. This just seemed like the shooter variant of 'just click heads' and win. Strategically it seemed ok .....
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 19:51
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

[Armag] diarouga wrote:This is just lame. The AI just makes full stalkers and wins because perfect macro in sc2 means that you don't lose a single unit.

Yes. This just seemed like the shooter variant of 'just click heads' and win. Strategically it seemed okay, I think it basically understands the .....
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 19:47
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Rotterdam also stating now that it's mechanics in that recent game were 'not human'.
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 19:44
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

So eh, so far I honestly just feel like the AI was overtuned in the mechanical department. It hasn't truly seemed to show extremely intelligent play.

Imo the problem is that it's effective apm is way higher than that of a pro gamer, even if the apm is comparable.
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 18:57
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

So it actually beat TLO, but TLO played pretty poorly. So far it looks like a strong human though, it's pretty cool.
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 13:25
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Goodspeed wrote:Yeah they say 6. But I think that if you count internet acquaintances it should be 5 for the vast majority of people.

I wonder how this accounts for relatively isolated people who only know 2-3 people.
by momuuu
24 Jan 2019, 11:03
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration
Replies: 66
Views: 639
Flag: Netherlands

Re: SC2 Deepmind Demonstration

Horsemen wrote:AI is a buzzword that will disappear after the next recession

There is maybe a bit too much hype, but what deepmind has achieved was already groundbreaking and beating sc2 would be another huge succes.

I dont think AI is a buzzword to be honest. Its one of the few technological advances .....
by momuuu
23 Jan 2019, 10:25
Forum: General
Topic: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?
Replies: 284
Views: 4739
Flag: Netherlands

Re: What is more important: IQ or mechanics?

ListlessSalmon wrote:Given the previous discussion in here its perhaps worth noting there's some kind of Deepmind sc2 livestream tomorrow hosted by Artosis and Rotterdam: https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcr ... ion-jan-24

No idea precisely what it will be, I would have assumed not something subst .....
by momuuu
22 Jan 2019, 01:44
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Wanting healthcare for everyone and truly being like some European countries is still quite the difference though.
by momuuu
20 Jan 2019, 14:18
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Goodspeed wrote:Seriously though, is the base not already energized by their disapproval of Trump? Turnout in the midterms was historic.
Does Trump even stand a chance in 2020, no matter who the dems pick? Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't see him winning.

Well, it didn't end up nearly as bad as .....
by momuuu
20 Jan 2019, 01:25
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

iwillspankyou wrote:
What type of candidate do you think can energize the base?

A candidate that talks about the issues that most US ppl are concerned with, and does not take money from big money interests. I have my favorite you might know ;) Sanders have already energized the base :shock:
I also like Tulsi G .....
by momuuu
19 Jan 2019, 14:16
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

Goodspeed wrote:
momuuu wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:Jerom loves to radicalize people

To be honest, I kinda do want people to radicalize. I stopped believing in the capitalist system. I think I even legitemately believe that eventually people will realize how shit late stage capitalism is and overthro .....
by momuuu
19 Jan 2019, 11:31
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

iwillspankyou wrote:
n0el wrote:
Show hidden quotes
by momuuu
19 Jan 2019, 11:30
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

fightinfrenchman wrote:Jerom loves to radicalize people

To be honest, I kinda do want people to radicalize. I stopped believing in the capitalist system. I think I even legitemately believe that eventually people will realize how shit late stage capitalism is and overthrow it. The idea that you work .....
by momuuu
18 Jan 2019, 19:22
Forum: Real-life Discussion
Topic: 2020 Democratic Primary
Replies: 3340
Views: 21030
Flag: Netherlands

Re: 2020 Democratic Primary

n0el wrote:Not to mention once you break from labor to capital, you are basically gaining wealth through exploitation of labor and not from creating value. Why shouldn't Jeff Bozo be taxed at 90%+ over 10 million dollars when he's created a modern enslavement of the american worker. Sure he added v .....

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