Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by don_artie »

this message is a bit of a reponse to the title: I was watching hera play and he had this fight with bow+pike vs cav+ bow and afterwards he was like holy shit that was so intense micro and how he did well etc. but i feel like they don't do anything special, they basically micro how i micro (bows shoot bows, spears go back and forth for the cav). where as when i would watch for example kaiserklein or hazza in aoe3 their bows (skirms) would be split up oneshotting 2 bows at once where as he was just overkilling with his shots a lot. it doesn't seem as impossible of a level to reach compared to how I felt in aoe3 (and I never did reach that level) I'm also considering maybe having my bow group on 6 than half on 7 half on 8 since units can have multiple groups and have both a combined group as well as split group, but that's probably hard to get good at
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by harcha »

makes sense. the problem is as you lose units your smaller groups lose that critical damage to one hit an enemy, therefore you have to rapidly adjust your groups while continuing to micro the fight and produce more units, which is quite difficult (i feel like even more difficult if you are trying to do this while using groups)
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by Goodspeed »

don_artie wrote:this message is a bit of a reponse to the title: I was watching hera play and he had this fight with bow+pike vs cav+ bow and afterwards he was like holy shit that was so intense micro and how he did well etc. but i feel like they don't do anything special, they basically micro how i micro (bows shoot bows, spears go back and forth for the cav). where as when i would watch for example kaiserklein or hazza in aoe3 their bows (skirms) would be split up oneshotting 2 bows at once where as he was just overkilling with his shots a lot. it doesn't seem as impossible of a level to reach compared to how I felt in aoe3 (and I never did reach that level) I'm also considering maybe having my bow group on 6 than half on 7 half on 8 since units can have multiple groups and have both a combined group as well as split group, but that's probably hard to get good at
Yeah, AoE2 players aren't as used to this kind of micro as AoE3 players and it shows. But their mouse speed and accuracy is undoubtedly greater than AoE3 players' so when they realize it's a worthwhile thing to spend APM on they will become good at it quickly. SC2 players on the other hand, particularly terran players, are already used to splitting things extremely fast so they will outperform everyone else.

I'd recommend against splitting them into different control groups. The tried-and-true way of splitting fire is dragboxing. In my XP, when you actually start doing it you'll realize it's not as hard as it seemed, and you probably already have the mouse speed required to split them in 2 at least.
Then again it's probably harder in AoE4 because of the hitboxes.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by WickedCossack »

don_artie wrote:this message is a bit of a reponse to the title: I was watching hera play and he had this fight with bow+pike vs cav+ bow and afterwards he was like holy shit that was so intense micro and how he did well etc. but i feel like they don't do anything special, they basically micro how i micro (bows shoot bows, spears go back and forth for the cav). where as when i would watch for example kaiserklein or hazza in aoe3 their bows (skirms) would be split up oneshotting 2 bows at once where as he was just overkilling with his shots a lot. it doesn't seem as impossible of a level to reach compared to how I felt in aoe3 (and I never did reach that level) I'm also considering maybe having my bow group on 6 than half on 7 half on 8 since units can have multiple groups and have both a combined group as well as split group, but that's probably hard to get good at
In fairness I think that's down to two things:

1) It doesn't seem feasible right now to mechanically box a small group of your units to target an individual enemy unit due to the click responsiveness on units AND the units clump more than aoe3 meaning even with the same responsiveness it's harder,. You sort of can I guess but looks a little frustrating, I'm assuming a future patch could change this.
2) Background, e.g aoe2 vs aoe3. It seems that boxing units in aoe3 is just more useful as the counters are harder, the units are larger and aoe2 focus is on other things, splitting/dodging etc.

On point 2 everyone will adapt to whatever is the best over time, especially in the age of streaming it's so quick to look at what is working. I'm sure boxing units in aoe3 wasn't at all common until like 2015 and now you see it on 1st leuit streams. Having watched Hera's mechanics I think it's fair to say he can obviously adapt to this if needs be, his speed looks impossible for me to reach! I'm hoping it's not a full speed game but it will be more than aoe3 at least ...
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by don_artie »

that's funny @WickedCossack , when I watched his stream I thought 'ah this is pretty doable' and saw the things where he was lacking. perhaps I just have that competitive hunger rn
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by WickedCossack »

don_artie wrote:that's funny @WickedCossack , when I watched his stream I thought 'ah this is pretty doable' and saw the things where he was lacking. perhaps I just have that competitive hunger rn
Yes well I've been playing RTS on and off since 2005, I have the unfortunate experience of knowing where my limits are, and the mechancis element is sadly not near heras :P You're still fresh faced, relatively, if you can do it then go for it. Would love to see big don crushing some aoe2 nerds.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by Goodspeed »

don_artie wrote:that's funny @WickedCossack , when I watched his stream I thought 'ah this is pretty doable' and saw the things where he was lacking. perhaps I just have that competitive hunger rn
I'm sure he has a lot of spare "mechanical APM" in AoE4 because his brain can't keep up yet. Players like him will speed up a lot with experience. Have you seen him play AoE2? That looks a lot more daunting
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by n0el »

The micro is way more like aoe3 as well, its baiting with cav and pikes compared to splitting groups of xbows and dodging shots. So its a new concept for aoe2 players whereas this is something any aoe3 player has done for a while.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by don_artie »

Goodspeed wrote:
don_artie wrote:that's funny @WickedCossack , when I watched his stream I thought 'ah this is pretty doable' and saw the things where he was lacking. perhaps I just have that competitive hunger rn
I'm sure he has a lot of spare "mechanical APM" in AoE4 because his brain can't keep up yet. Players like him will speed up a lot with experience. Have you seen him play AoE2? That looks a lot more daunting
yea I also feel like I have spare apm, I need to start splitting archer fire in certain amount of mass
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by LazarosVas »

Don artie keep up this mentality man, seeing you get up there on the ladder feels so good for us AOE 3 fanboys.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by iNcog »

Goodspeed wrote:
don_artie wrote:this message is a bit of a reponse to the title: I was watching hera play and he had this fight with bow+pike vs cav+ bow and afterwards he was like holy shit that was so intense micro and how he did well etc. but i feel like they don't do anything special, they basically micro how i micro (bows shoot bows, spears go back and forth for the cav). where as when i would watch for example kaiserklein or hazza in aoe3 their bows (skirms) would be split up oneshotting 2 bows at once where as he was just overkilling with his shots a lot. it doesn't seem as impossible of a level to reach compared to how I felt in aoe3 (and I never did reach that level) I'm also considering maybe having my bow group on 6 than half on 7 half on 8 since units can have multiple groups and have both a combined group as well as split group, but that's probably hard to get good at
Yeah, AoE2 players aren't as used to this kind of micro as AoE3 players and it shows. But their mouse speed and accuracy is undoubtedly greater than AoE3 players' so when they realize it's a worthwhile thing to spend APM on they will become good at it quickly. SC2 players on the other hand, particularly terran players, are already used to splitting things extremely fast so they will outperform everyone else.

I'd recommend against splitting them into different control groups. The tried-and-true way of splitting fire is dragboxing. In my XP, when you actually start doing it you'll realize it's not as hard as it seemed, and you probably already have the mouse speed required to split them in 2 at least.
Then again it's probably harder in AoE4 because of the hitboxes.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by rsy »

Dude the worst thing with hitboxes I have seen is trying to retask on an unbuilt wall. You can't click it, the game just says nope
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by don_artie »

hope I did you guys proud, so much to learn still but happy with my result after 1 week of play
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by Zutazuta »

BIG Don gonna be the goat
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by Plutonic »

don_artie wrote:hope I did you guys proud, so much to learn still but happy with my result after 1 week of play
Just came here to say you were awesome today, that 3rd game was... *chef kiss*
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by don_artie »

for those interested; I've recorded my POV for the daut and lucifron series with the intention of doing some commentary over it and uploading it to youtube.
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by pecelot »

LazarosVas wrote:GUA is destroying the ladder
has he been charged with property damage?
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by Challenger_Marco »

don_artie wrote:for those interested; I've recorded my POV for the daut and lucifron series with the intention of doing some commentary over it and uploading it to youtube.
Time to start streaming aoe4 you already got huge no of fans from Daut series
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by LazarosVas »

don_artie wrote:hope I did you guys proud, so much to learn still but happy with my result after 1 week of play
So proud of you man.. absolutely great, you were one of the best in macro at AOE 3 so it does not surprise me you adapted so quickly.

Just make us a favor and coach Hazza so we can have him at the top as well :p
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

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Post by Zutazuta »

Touching moment last night on the GUA stream. Soldier randomly called up his bro and told him he loved him. It was a precious moment!

https://clips.twitch.tv/UnsightlyTriang ... oUSAakGHu6
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by BrookG »

Zutazuta wrote:Touching moment last night on the GUA stream. Soldier randomly called up his bro and told him he loved him. It was a precious moment!

https://clips.twitch.tv/UnsightlyTriang ... oUSAakGHu6
funny, cuz it's true
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Re: Watching GUA go beast mode in the AOE 4 ladder makes me think how easily Kaiser + Hazza would be no.1 there

Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

Zutazuta wrote:Touching moment last night on the GUA stream. Soldier randomly called up his bro and told him he loved him. It was a precious moment!

https://clips.twitch.tv/UnsightlyTriang ... oUSAakGHu6
ㅜ.ㅜ

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