Live Now! GENESIS Main Event

[Goodspeed]

It probably has to do with Viper's playstyle, which has always been reactive. Mista is perhaps more used to dictating the game, less used to adapting. Might be explained by their backgrounds; AoM and AoEO seemed to reward mechanics more than adaptiveness. And Mista was so dominant in them that for him, playing a pro-active style would have been a good way of managing risk.

AoE2 players are back to practicing for KOTD4 but for now they actually seem to enjoy AoE4 enough to come back to it afterwards.

[Astaroth]

IMO it shows one of the big strengths of aoe2, which at least so far also translates into aoe4:

It is not mostly or only about mechanics and build orders, but primarily about adapting. Comebacks and changes in the course of the game are very possible.

[Challenger_Marco]

You cannot draw conclusions from just 1 event that just happened ,Also i still believe Mista is better than Viper ,his openings were solid af ,no one can execute with cleanliness like him when he won he hit damn hard there is no comeback at any point from opponent ,don't think it was ideal performance by him in finals ,he mentioned hes not used to long games & series and usually plays 2-4 hrs/day and then goes off & hes kinda retired like 4 years ago and came back this year.

Mista wasn't prepared for the full set he had plans in his mind and tried to execute the best as he could ,he ran out of gas after g1 like he mentioned in chat ,although he had some tentative plans ,blueprints layed out on how to play out the entire series don't think it wasn't a full prepped one going into it ,Viper on the other hand is indeed adaptive/reactive player and does build on the go although this ain't simply the main factor which wins games but also how you can quickly think and find solution on the spot ,A player who comes fully prepared will know xyz what's gonna happen (which gives confidence) but the other guy needs to quickly find solutions to xyz+x and outplay his plan is very challenging but also Viper can apply the same principles of aoe2 because it's somewhat similar.

Meanwhile Viper is a full timer (full time professional player/streamer_ he has been trained numerous times in these spots so he can simply perform better in this situation but also had a big downtime to chill off between semi finals & finals which gave him time to gain energy back but Mista had a small break ,he said in chat that if he would have played another day he would performed x2 better which i would say is a fair excuse ,he was such a nice guy accepting the loss big sportsmanship ,would want ideal performance from both players well it is what is since the event needs to be closed that day.

I would nominate Mista the most complete RTS player(ex-sc2 pro top 6 NA ,#1 in AoM & AoeO,#2 in Aoe4(as of now) than Viper here ,given his commitments which is short and how super talented he is & able to achieve it in such short period of time is really insane.

Also to Mention Mista took out MarineLord who is prolly as good as Viper & ppl are shadowing and simply crowning Viper the best ,goat etc (which you can say as of now) ,With failure comes success surely many ppl lost to viper in finals and took revenge in next event like Hera did in aoe2.

A lot of aoe2 pros are full timers ,while some the ppl from other games are short committed as of now ,i'm sure in future with more time to grind ,meta to be developed ,evolved & new features being added things would get interesting with more new talent on the field.

[RefluxSemantic]

It's been less than a month since the game has been out. Any conclusion other than that the viper won would be premature.

[Challenger_Marco]

It's my future prediction that Mista will win a tournament given hes fully committed to it ,depends if he can manage it b/w farming IRL & ranked ladder .The bo1 caused upsets as well ,don't think it was right format to determine the best player but given the timeline needed to be done then yeah ,a complete international open tournament with plenty of time would have worked out into ideal results since not all players over the globe are on same clock & had to play it off -time than they normally do.

[flontier]

Play the semi and final in a row fucked up TheMista for sure, that was really the downside of the tournament format to play semi and final that close.
This thing cant have the same impact on someone working full time against someone with his whole time dedicated to play video games.

[RefluxSemantic]

It's my future prediction that Mista will win a tournament given hes fully committed to it ,depends if he can manage it b/w farming IRL & ranked ladder .The bo1 caused upsets as well ,don't think it was right format to determine the best player but given the timeline needed to be done then yeah ,a complete international open tournament with plenty of time would have worked out into ideal results since not all players over the globe are on same clock & had to play it off -time than they normally do.

Surely the level of play and general strategic understanding will evolve a ton. The 'meta' so far hardly exists and isn't well developed. When the community gets to build on what we all figure out, new people might rise while others might be forgotten. Hard to make any such predictions.

[Goodspeed]

You cannot draw conclusions from just 1 event that just happened ,Also i still believe Mista is better than Viper ,his openings were solid af ,no one can execute with cleanliness like him when he won he hit damn hard there is no comeback at any point from opponent ,don't think it was ideal performance by him in finals ,he mentioned hes not used to long games & series and usually plays 2-4 hrs/day and then goes off & hes kinda retired like 4 years ago and came back this year.

Mista wasn't prepared for the full set he had plans in his mind and tried to execute the best as he could ,he ran out of gas after g1 like he mentioned in chat ,although he had some tentative plans ,blueprints layed out on how to play out the entire series don't think it wasn't a full prepped one going into it ,Viper on the other hand is indeed adaptive/reactive player and does build on the go although this ain't simply the main factor which wins games but also how you can quickly think and find solution on the spot ,A player who comes fully prepared will know xyz what's gonna happen (which gives confidence) but the other guy needs to quickly find solutions to xyz+x and outplay his plan is very challenging but also Viper can apply the same principles of aoe2 because it's somewhat similar.

Meanwhile Viper is a full timer (full time professional player/streamer_ he has been trained numerous times in these spots so he can simply perform better in this situation but also had a big downtime to chill off between semi finals & finals which gave him time to gain energy back but Mista had a small break ,he said in chat that if he would have played another day he would performed x2 better which i would say is a fair excuse ,he was such a nice guy accepting the loss big sportsmanship ,would want ideal performance from both players well it is what is since the event needs to be closed that day.

I would nominate Mista the most complete RTS player(ex-sc2 pro top 6 NA ,#1 in AoM & AoeO,#2 in Aoe4(as of now) than Viper here ,given his commitments which is short and how super talented he is & able to achieve it in such short period of time is really insane.

Also to Mention Mista took out MarineLord who is prolly as good as Viper & ppl are shadowing and simply crowning Viper the best ,goat etc (which you can say as of now) ,With failure comes success surely many ppl lost to viper in finals and took revenge in next event like Hera did in aoe2.

A lot of aoe2 pros are full timers ,while some the ppl from other games are short committed as of now ,i'm sure in future with more time to grind ,meta to be developed ,evolved & new features being added things would get interesting with more new talent on the field.

It seems like you're putting Mista on a bit of a pedestal here, mostly based on his performance playing dead games. Obviously his achievements as an RTS player, while certainly more impressive than anyone here excluding H2O, are nowhere near comparable to Viper's, who is the GOAT in a highly competitive RTS. If Mista was as talented as you seem to think, what was he doing playing AoM and AoEO?

The fact that Viper was able to practice full time is a big deal for sure, but it seems likely Mista still got a lot more total playtime. From their gameplay I got that impression, since Mista's builds seemed more refined (g1 for example was a full-on build order win), and Viper didn't even know he could build siege out of that English castle age landmark.

Also, Mista looked weaker in his QF and SF series than Viper did. ML had an easy game 5 on boulder bay against Mista and lost to a predictable siege push, and Vortix threw an even more unloseable game on that same map. No one really looked great in this tournament except Viper imo, who was never in a position to lose a series.

[Astaroth]

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

[gibson]

Yea you really see Viper natural RTS talent here. Even with inferior builds his scouting, adaption, and decision making were just on a different level from every other player in the event. We'll see how long he can stay towards the top while splitting time between aoe2 and aoe4 vs people who are just playing aoe4 but he very clearly could be one of the best in aoe4(possibly the best) if he wanted to.

[Challenger_Marco]

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

You can't simply say nothing when he was competitive when sc2 was at it's peak

[Challenger_Marco]

Gotta commend Viper despite having hand tumor (Ganglion cyst) ,wirst injury he still won

[rsy]

Gotta commend Viper despite having hand tumor (Ganglion cyst) ,wirst injury he still won

????

[Cleters]

I always wonder what the real lvl of people this early on the game is, like we are all impressed by how good they are.

But -I know there was no tryhard context, I know- I remember that stream Aussi made, the showmatch between daut and viper on AOE3, and how low the lvl of playing was by our standards.

People on AOE4 have like what, between 50 and 150 games. Maybe in 2 years those games would looks like sergents playing and we're just all corporals, who knows.

[Challenger_Marco]

Gotta commend Viper despite having hand tumor (Ganglion cyst) ,wirst injury he still won

????

[Astaroth]

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

You can't simply say nothing when he was competitive when sc2 was at it's peak

According to Liquipedia, he won like 1k in SC2, can't have been that impressive at it. Also, Viper only barely played SC2 and was still quite good at it.

I really don't get why you downplay Viper so much. His dominance in aoe2 for such a long time in a quite big RTS game is basically unheard of. His RTS skills are incredible.

[Challenger_Marco]

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

You can't simply say nothing when he was competitive when sc2 was at it's peak

According to Liquipedia, he won like 1k in SC2, can't have been that impressive at it. Also, Viper only barely played SC2 and was still quite good at it.

I really don't get why you downplay Viper so much. His dominance in aoe2 for such a long time in a quite big RTS game is basically unheard of. His RTS skills are incredible.

I really don't get why you downplay Mista so much either,being "barely played sc2 and still quite good"??(at this point you are telling me your Viper fanboy) what does that even mean he hasn't won anything from sc2 ,what makes you think that that point is even relevant here? surely some ppl in aoe3 tried sc2 got good at it because they grinded the game hard if you are gonna compare Viper in sc2 then simply Mista would be better there because there are results and the discussion about if he played a certain longer he would dominated is just nonsense and utter speculation.

That being said the finals wasn't ideal for Mista ,imo I keep Mista higher you don't have to negotiate my thoughts to change my opinion as everyone is free to have their own ,Viper did play on his ideal performance which i don't discredit so you are overthinking too much and me thinking Viper is "shit" which is not the case.

[RefluxSemantic]

This silly discussion made me realize I want to see Maru play aoe4 competitively now.

[Challenger_Marco]

If Mista was as talented as you seem to think, what was he doing playing AoM and AoEO?

I don't think that was right question to ask ,been a dead game isn't his fault and also aoe2 at that time was kinda dying(~2010-2012) but got revived and who knew ppl could make a living out of it ,that being said everyone has their priorities in life you can't simply discredit him because it has lower playerbase means less competitive ,most of the players in games are casual ones/campaign players although the competition level is high because the avg no of players trying hard differs ,in small community only the fanbase players play it with full commitment which makes it still competitive ,in a way aoe3 is dead but still was competitive in 2019 (NWC) with higher skill ceiling ,although none of aoe3 players made it to top 8 ,are you indirectly implying aoe3 is a dead game as well & straight discredit the pros too?

The AOEO & AOM players were higher skilled to make it enough to top 8 ,you can see the same on ladder with GUA ,Soldier .

The fact that someone from a dead game as you say and got 2nd place in firs major event is not impressive and don't see a talent?

Also, Mista looked weaker in his QF and SF series than Viper did. ML had an easy game 5 on boulder bay against Mista and lost to a predictable siege push, and Vortix threw an even more unloseable game on that same map. No one really looked great in this tournament except Viper imo, who was never in a position to lose a series.

??I don't think describing the journey of his bracket series is right for judgement ,if you see Viper he almost lost in the qualifiers to simtom (which was unloseable )which the guy luckily threw so Viper is here in first place ,ppl who make mistakes and throwing are their fault and has nothing to do with Mista here (saying hes weaker) ,i'm sure some ppl would have lost in these situations.

Tbh none looked great in this tournament at all ,Viper was super shaky in qualifiers he almost lost to simtom.He just popped in Main Event ,Viper simply had a easier bracket to finals than Mista ,MarineLord and Vortix up with Viper would have been a bit different since he would have won at the end but close series so you can't really describe weak for that.

[Astaroth]

Show hidden quotes

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

You can't simply say nothing when he was competitive when sc2 was at it's peak

According to Liquipedia, he won like 1k in SC2, can't have been that impressive at it. Also, Viper only barely played SC2 and was still quite good at it.

I really don't get why you downplay Viper so much. His dominance in aoe2 for such a long time in a quite big RTS game is basically unheard of. His RTS skills are incredible.

I really don't get why you downplay Mista so much either,being "barely played sc2 and still quite good"??(at this point you are telling me your Viper fanboy) what does that even mean he hasn't won anything from sc2 ,what makes you think that that point is even relevant here? surely some ppl in aoe3 tried sc2 got good at it because they grinded the game hard if you are gonna compare Viper in sc2 then simply Mista would be better there because there are results and the discussion about if he played a certain longer he would dominated is just nonsense and utter speculation.

That being said the finals wasn't ideal for Mista ,imo I keep Mista higher you don't have to negotiate my thoughts to change my opinion as everyone is free to have their own ,Viper did play on his ideal performance which i don't discredit so you are overthinking too much and me thinking Viper is "shit" which is not the case.

Your post is barely comprehensible, please work on your punctuation, spelling and grammar.

[Challenger_Marco]

Show hidden quotes

Exactly what Goodspeed said.

Being top in AoM or AoEO is just nothing compared to Aoe2 considering the playerbase.

You can't simply say nothing when he was competitive when sc2 was at it's peak

According to Liquipedia, he won like 1k in SC2, can't have been that impressive at it. Also, Viper only barely played SC2 and was still quite good at it.

I really don't get why you downplay Viper so much. His dominance in aoe2 for such a long time in a quite big RTS game is basically unheard of. His RTS skills are incredible.

I really don't get why you downplay Mista so much either,being "barely played sc2 and still quite good"??(at this point you are telling me your Viper fanboy) what does that even mean he hasn't won anything from sc2 ,what makes you think that that point is even relevant here? surely some ppl in aoe3 tried sc2 got good at it because they grinded the game hard if you are gonna compare Viper in sc2 then simply Mista would be better there because there are results and the discussion about if he played a certain longer he would dominated is just nonsense and utter speculation.

That being said the finals wasn't ideal for Mista ,imo I keep Mista higher you don't have to negotiate my thoughts to change my opinion as everyone is free to have their own ,Viper did play on his ideal performance which i don't discredit so you are overthinking too much and me thinking Viper is "shit" which is not the case.

Your post is barely comprehensible, please work on your punctuation, spelling and grammar.

You don't have to reply if you got nothing to say thinking if you are flaming me you surely got triggered there mate by being a huge fan boy

[Astaroth]

No, you are the one doing the flaming ("fan boy"), but your post is honestly very hard to understand.

[gibson]

Seems like people are just jealous of the #1 ECL team captain

[Goodspeed]

If Mista was as talented as you seem to think, what was he doing playing AoM and AoEO?

I don't think that was right question to ask ,been a dead game isn't his fault and also aoe2 at that time was kinda dying(~2010-2012) but got revived and who knew ppl could make a living out of it ,that being said everyone has their priorities in life you can't simply discredit him because it has lower playerbase means less competitive ,most of the players in games are casual ones/campaign players although the competition level is high because the avg no of players trying hard differs ,in small community only the fanbase players play it with full commitment which makes it still competitive ,in a way aoe3 is dead but still was competitive in 2019 (NWC) with higher skill ceiling ,although none of aoe3 players made it to top 8 ,are you indirectly implying aoe3 is a dead game as well & straight discredit the pros too?

The AOEO & AOM players were higher skilled to make it enough to top 8 ,you can see the same on ladder with GUA ,Soldier .

The fact that someone from a dead game as you say and got 2nd place in firs major event is not impressive and don't see a talent?

I'm not saying Mista has no talent lol, like I said his record in RTS is quite impressive. But you're claiming he's a better RTS player than TheViper which is just completely out of touch with reality

[blackwidow]

This silly discussion made me realize I want to see Maru play aoe4 competitively now.