AOE3 players in AOE4.

[chronique]

the idea that the game is lost or won depending on the civ match up and that a match is a foregone conclusion is a very aoe3'ish take that I only ever hear from aoe3 players. In the mean time, the players actually sitting at the top of the ladder and discussing the game don't even approach the idea of match ups being asymmetrically imbalanced. right now, all the sc2 players with their mechanics, and armed with better builds, are the ones standing at the top of the game.

Strongly disagree with that, i have heard pretty much every time i watched MarineLord, said some MU are unplayable or heavly favoured for one civ (mostly on hybride map). And all of them are agree about mongole/pro scout and HA.

[iNcog]

the idea that the game is lost or won depending on the civ match up and that a match is a foregone conclusion is a very aoe3'ish take that I only ever hear from aoe3 players. In the mean time, the players actually sitting at the top of the ladder and discussing the game don't even approach the idea of match ups being asymmetrically imbalanced. right now, all the sc2 players with their mechanics, and armed with better builds, are the ones standing at the top of the game.

Strongly disagree with that, i have heard pretty much every time i watched MarineLord, said some MU are unplayable or heavly favoured for one civ (mostly on hybride map). And all of them are agree about mongole/pro scout and HA.

HA, Mongols, water, siege and professional scouts are all overtuned though, as in stronger than other options. Maps are also bad. I think first and foremost, those things need to be properly tuned (like ranged inf in aoe3) prior to us stating that civilization match ups, due to design, are the deciding factor to how games go.

Nonetheless, point taken and I should be careful about pretending that match-ups don't matter. for the time being though, I don't see which match ups are quite specifically unbalanced due to how the two civilizations are designed. I'll reevaluate my position once I see strong evidence to the contrary for sure.

I'm racking my brain. Maybe an example of this would be France vs HRE. Both civs are comparable in strength (though imo France is probably better?). HRE want to FC and get their relics but French get map control and prevent this from happening with knight/archer/siege. I could see that, for example, not being a winnable match up for HRE.

but then, who says HRE can't do their own counter play to that? horsemen/spear actually do somewhat okay vs knight/archer if you get the right numbers and hit the appropriate timing. if you're able to clear the french army and regain map control, then you can FC and get to your relics. you can also skip pro scouts as HRE and age at like 7:30 which is quite early even for french feudal to contest

I'm spitballing but hopefully this is a good example to illustrate what I'm talking about. I just don't see a ton of match ups where a civ outright wins because they have a strategy that the other civ just can't deal with

[chronique]

@iNcog From what i have heard, it's a lot map depending (like, the water is heavly imba even without dehli/mongol) and some map like black forest or easly wallable (i don't remember their name) make some MU totaly unfair.

And it's something we can see in tourney because most of the time, you know what civ will be picked each maps.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

From what ive seen maps with rivers in them play very weird, need to include water/fishing into the build order and need some water presence just so that your army is able to cross the water and is not nuked by a demo ship aha.

What an aoe4 water map really needs is a map shaped like california/florida with a clear land / water division ( two thirds land, one third water) with a direct land route between players TC's

[n0el]

Cannot wait for custom maps. Every RTS has gotten substantially better once custom maps get into the pools.

[iNcog]

@iNcog From what i have heard, it's a lot map depending (like, the water is heavly imba even without dehli/mongol) and some map like black forest or easly wallable (i don't remember their name) make some MU totaly unfair.

And it's something we can see in tourney because most of the time, you know what civ will be picked each maps.

Well it's a given that the maps are bad. We need RMS scripting and community maps in the map pool. Still unrelated to the civ design. I'm more interested in what civ imbalances can be found on Arabia for instance. or Lipany

[blackwidow]

@iNcog From what i have heard, it's a lot map depending (like, the water is heavly imba even without dehli/mongol) and some map like black forest or easly wallable (i don't remember their name) make some MU totaly unfair.

And it's something we can see in tourney because most of the time, you know what civ will be picked each maps.

Well it's a given that the maps are bad. We need RMS scripting and community maps in the map pool. Still unrelated to the civ design. I'm more interested in what civ imbalances can be found on Arabia for instance. or Lipany

Excluding rus/mongols:

Delhi and HRE instalose against french/english on ara. But I think the main issue is that there is only 1 way to play the matchups. Say you're playing french vs china on arabia, you're in for a freewin but you HAVE to win it early-mid. If you don't, you lose the game. No options for either civ, sure china can try and throw a curveball and be aggressive but it's bad and they'll likely fail. Same goes for french, they can try to boom but they'll lose to china lategame at least 9/10 games.

At this point it's part of the game's design and I don't think there is any going back in that regard. So personally I think I'm team Hera in hoping for more and more civs so that we can get non-mirror matchups that are balanced due to similar styles and just give up on the fact that some matchups are unwinnable (just don't pick X civ on Y map). For example Abbasid vs HRE or Delhi vs China can be really fun matchups on ara and french vs english seems to be an interesting one as well. Games on a map like high view are really interesting as well for high aggro civs to play for map control. So IMO the fun is there, they just need to find a way to bring diversity in. But in reality I think when they add civs they're gonna make them special in their own way in the hopes of people buying them as some sort of DLC, which.. imo is a bad monetization strategy, really doesn't incentivize the company to care for the game's competitive state.

soz for ramble I like the game but am getting frustrated with the unplayable state of current ladder (and I don't see it getting better with rus/mongols nerfed)

[iNcog]

Delhi and HRE instalose against french/english on ara. But I think the main issue is that there is only 1 way to play the matchups. Say you're playing french vs china on arabia, you're in for a freewin but you HAVE to win it early-mid. If you don't, you lose the game. No options for either civ, sure china can try and throw a curveball and be aggressive but it's bad and they'll likely fail. Same goes for french, they can try to boom but they'll lose to china lategame at least 9/10 games.

that makes sense to me. though honestly, isn't that more due to the fact that delhi and HRE just can't compete with the early game power of english/french? same with china, don't think any civ realistically competes with them late game. those civs are outliers but I feel there may be a way to nudge a civ's power in early game and also in the late game. e.g. give china a buff in their early game and then also nerf the clocktower siege that they have. I'm unsure myself but it seems that they should be giving all civilizations smooth scaling throughout the game.

well, we shall see.

[callentournies]

aoe3 players in aoe4 are just lost, that's all.

[blackwidow]

that makes sense to me. though honestly, isn't that more due to the fact that delhi and HRE just can't compete with the early game power of english/french? same with china, don't think any civ realistically competes with them late game. those civs are outliers but I feel there may be a way to nudge a civ's power in early game and also in the late game. e.g. give china a buff in their early game and then also nerf the clocktower siege that they have. I'm unsure myself but it seems that they should be giving all civilizations smooth scaling throughout the game.

well, we shall see.

every civ is an outlier in that case. balance changes can smooth the edges but at its core I think the civs are too different to smooth it all the way for the matchups to become dynamic in-game. We'll see for sure, their next patch can't come soon enough though!

[Victor_swe]

Who is it at #5 with a musketeer avatar? If I wasnt so trash i would have thought it was me.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

@Victor_swe we know you are #1 in our hearts

[don_artie]

Dead hunts can walk tho

[SoldieR]

Omg it's him!! Mr fartie!

[[hope]Xiphos]

Who is it at #5 with a musketeer avatar? If I wasnt so trash i would have thought it was me.

The game misses good old musket spam. Commandement

[look]

aoe4 trash!

[acergame09]

My smurf SaulGoodMan is top 100 but I'm trying to play bit more casually.

[Hazza54321]

My smurf SaulGoodMan is top 100 but I'm trying to play bit more casually.

lets goo madlad

[SoldieR]

Oh wow acer is saul

[rsy]

So apparently parfait made a return to aoe. GUA mentioned it in a stream, so looked up brownbear on the leaderboards and the logo by his name is the same as his youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/brownbeargaming/featured

[gh0st]

I play aoe4.
I am ranked 5780.
:)

so basically still nub

Cool

[LazarosVas]

So apparently parfait made a return to aoe. GUA mentioned it in a stream, so looked up brownbear on the leaderboards and the logo by his name is the same as his youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/brownbeargaming/featured

I saw this guy's video for aoe 3, he was kinda talking shit about it the whole 16 minutes.

[giveuanxiety]

He was one of the old aoe3 greats. He participated in WCG and was one of the best players in the world in his prime.

[rsy]

I play aoe4.
I am ranked 5780.
:)

so basically still nub

Cool

as always!
when are you starting in aoe4

[Victor_swe]

Looking for m8 to play ~1500 elo plx