What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

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What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

The game is in a pretty good state right now, for most of the users on the forum. It's got custom hotkeys and good balance. Custom games and whatnot aren't what they should be but the ladder experience is good.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Goodspeed »

No amount of balancing or QoL changes is going to make it a better game than AoE2 so I see no reason to play it instead of that other than the novelty, which wore off very quickly because of the lacking variety. It's just not enough fun imo
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Don Nameless »

I had seen a similar discussion in the past on esoc. Doesn't Aoe4 already have 10k+ players? Aoe3de looks bad in comparison
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

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Post by jesus3 »

No time and energy to spare to get into a new game

AoE3 DE feels like a completely new game after each patch already and I can't keep up
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by aligator92 »

jesus3 wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 12:03
No time and energy to spare to get into a new game

AoE3 DE feels like a completely new game after each patch already and I can't keep up
+1
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by gibson »

The game isn't fun
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by n0el »

gibson wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 14:55
The game isn't fun
completely agree
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Mitoe »

Out of curiosity, has anyone here actually tried the game in the last 6 months?
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Goodspeed »

There's no reason to
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Mitoe »

It's fine to feel that way, but the game has undergone a lot of changes since its release—including the addition of new civilizations—so I'm interested in whether these are recent opinions or not.

Not that the game is necessarily more fun, but it is different from when it was newer.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by n0el »

I played relatively recently and I still just don't have fun if the game goes into age 4. still feels like there are too many resources and i still cant stand the stone wall dynamics even with the changes which were in the right direction.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

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Post by callentournies »

I’m old; it’s harder for learning whole new things to be fun and practical (so I tell myself). As a character defect I don’t like doing things I’m bad at. Casual exceptions are pool, bowling, ice skating, golf, writing, apex, and exercising. I have no real competitive drives in these outside of self improvement. & they are fun social activities.

Maybe because it’s in a genre that I’m competent at in another title, I’ll always feel lost (mechanically and strategically) in a way I know I won’t sticking with aoe3.

And I’d rather play a different alternative game like Apex Legends. Apex still has an allure like I’m a kid — the desire to improve after each engagement exceeds me getting shat on. I am competitive in the sense that I care more if I win or lose engagements.

AoE3 is just mind numbing. It takes zero effort to play games, everything’s automatic even if it’s getting run around by osteoblaste.

AoE4 is like chess except I don’t watch aoe4. But it’s a similar feeling of absolute Loss in game. Debilitating, like playing aiz.

Both chess and aoe4 I’ve barely played. It becomes too frustrating too fast. The allure isn’t there, it ain’t. I have impractical competitive expectations that do not befit my skill. My friends are all much better than me at chess and aoe4 that play.

Competitive impulse has a large part to play in picking up new hobbies. Competitive impulse is probably hard to regulate beyond its immediacy. How one engages mentally with competitive impulse could be an engrained thing too. It’s easier to have the means and resources and outlook to engage with the competitive impulse when one is younger, could b, or having a lifestyle that isn’t a 9-5.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Goodspeed »

Mitoe wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 16:18
It's fine to feel that way, but the game has undergone a lot of changes since its release—including the addition of new civilizations—so I'm interested in whether these are recent opinions or not.

Not that the game is necessarily more fun, but it is different from when it was newer.
I don't doubt it changed, but unless they made an entire new game it hasn't changed enough
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

I have a lot of fun with the game these days, though I'm obviously biased since I'm liking the game. There's a bunch of different strategies that you can do but what I really like is the mechanical aspect of it. it's a bit like SC2 in that better mechanics are rewarded. The design is simple but still engaging. I also think the game isn't as figured out as aoe2 or aoe3. So I'm liking that my aggressive style has a place even at a high level, good raiding and map awareness do a lot and it's not too difficult to find damage if you need it (unless playing vs English but that's another issue).

aoe2 is too wall heavy for my taste these days, you have walls in aoe4 but they can be broken through and at least at the level I'm at, you rarely run into stone walls (unless you're playing Kaup or something).

AoE3 is amazing in its own right but I can't keep up with the changes made to that game. I think I'd also get ticked at snare, I don't think it's a good mechanic for rts. and idk, laming cowboys or mercs and needing to learn an anti-strategy for those strategies isn't as fun to me as aoe4, where you do your own thing and so does your opponent. the great thing with aoe4 is that you can't lose the game in a split second, the game state will only flip if there's a massive mistake being made on one side or another.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

jesus3 wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 12:03
No time and energy to spare to get into a new game

AoE3 DE feels like a completely new game after each patch already and I can't keep up
I wanna fire up the game again and see what's new. Though I have zero knowledge on what you're supposed to do which is quite penalizing.
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

Goodspeed wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 10:05
No amount of balancing or QoL changes is going to make it a better game than AoE2 so I see no reason to play it instead of that other than the novelty, which wore off very quickly because of the lacking variety. It's just not enough fun imo
I have to ask. In which ways are aoe2's design better than aoe4's? is aoe4 just a simpler version of aoe2?
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Riotcoke »

I'm just not a fan of the mechanics of AOE4 or AOE2 compared to AOE3.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Vinyanyérë »

I don't exactly lack time to play it but there's a ton of inertia; it's a lot easier to doomscroll/queue up in something I'm familiar with/play some collectathon RPG than learn how to play a new RTS game competitively (or worse, do something actually productive). DE is similar like jesus mentioned.

Maybe some AoE4 youtuber with the right grindset would be interested in creating some #content with an "Intro to AoE4 for RTS veterans" series or "Coaching an AoE3 player" series. That would certainly lower the barrier.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Mitoe »

I think @iNcog actually has a youtube series like that, but IIRC it may be geared towards beginner RTS players.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by SoldieR »

The competition fuels my drive to play. It's like when we used to have a pr40+ streaming at all times and a bunch if top players in the top stream chat. I really like both games but I think I like competition more than anything.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by Goodspeed »

iNcog wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 20:06
Goodspeed wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 10:05
No amount of balancing or QoL changes is going to make it a better game than AoE2 so I see no reason to play it instead of that other than the novelty, which wore off very quickly because of the lacking variety. It's just not enough fun imo
I have to ask. In which ways are aoe2's design better than aoe4's? is aoe4 just a simpler version of aoe2?
No, they are nothing alike.

I'd have to play this new AoE4 to properly discuss game design specifics but I think what it came down to for me is AoE4 wasn't satisfying to play. There are a lot of things in AoE2 that make it fun for me... (First things that come to mind:
- Getting a good dark age
- Micro. Just all of it. Ranged unit micro, dodging arrows, mangonel stuff etc
- Booming
- Prolonged late game fights where gold is scarce)

... whereas in AoE4 I can't think of a single thing that was satisfying. Getting a perfect dark age was trivial, the micro was so unfun I'd usually opt out of it entirely, etc.

When it comes to game design, I guess I can mention 2 things that are fundamental enough that they're almost certainly still a problem:
- Too much inter-civ variety, which causes a number of problems:
* The game becomes extremely hard to balance meaning there will always be 2-3 civs that are just better than the rest
* Metas where there is no strategic variety within civs (i.e. most civs will just have one build)
* Civs being too dominant in game settings or on maps that are away from the standard (this to me is a massive issue. In AoE2 they can afford to throw crazy maps/settings at the players and there is still always going to be enough variety)
- Military units and mechanics that heavily promote deathballs over multiple small groups
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

Mitoe wrote:
07 Jan 2023, 02:19
I think @iNcog actually has a youtube series like that, but IIRC it may be geared towards beginner RTS players.
Yeah it's for people who have never played an RTS before. Maybe I should expand the series for RTS veterans, though I'm not sure what needs explaining. u gather the resource, u make the unit, u go kill 'em
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by iNcog »

Goodspeed wrote:
07 Jan 2023, 07:21
iNcog wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 20:06
Goodspeed wrote:
06 Jan 2023, 10:05
No amount of balancing or QoL changes is going to make it a better game than AoE2 so I see no reason to play it instead of that other than the novelty, which wore off very quickly because of the lacking variety. It's just not enough fun imo
I have to ask. In which ways are aoe2's design better than aoe4's? is aoe4 just a simpler version of aoe2?
No, they are nothing alike.

I'd have to play this new AoE4 to properly discuss game design specifics but I think what it came down to for me is AoE4 wasn't satisfying to play. There are a lot of things in AoE2 that make it fun for me... (First things that come to mind:
- Getting a good dark age
- Micro. Just all of it. Ranged unit micro, dodging arrows, mangonel stuff etc
- Booming
- Prolonged late game fights where gold is scarce)

... whereas in AoE4 I can't think of a single thing that was satisfying. Getting a perfect dark age was trivial, the micro was so unfun I'd usually opt out of it entirely, etc.

When it comes to game design, I guess I can mention 2 things that are fundamental enough that they're almost certainly still a problem:
- Too much inter-civ variety, which causes a number of problems:
* The game becomes extremely hard to balance meaning there will always be 2-3 civs that are just better than the rest
* Metas where there is no strategic variety within civs (i.e. most civs will just have one build)
* Civs being too dominant in game settings or on maps that are away from the standard (this to me is a massive issue. In AoE2 they can afford to throw crazy maps/settings at the players and there is still always going to be enough variety)
- Military units and mechanics that heavily promote deathballs over multiple small groups
fair enough fair enough though I'm not entirely sold on the balance and meta aspect of it. I think there's a lot of variety to be had here.

micro would be more satisfying if they upped the tick rate
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Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by lemmings121 »

I think we all overestimate a bit the entry barrier. I also thought it would be daunting to learn a new rts from zero, but in the end its still aoe. everyone here is a competent age3 player: if you just open aoe4, make vills and spend money in shiny units you are already top 20% in aoe4 (or aoe2) before even learning the unit counters. After that is just a matter of if you are having fun or not. If you are, watching streams and playing ladder is natural, and before you realize you know enough about the game and the meta to be competitive.

I feel like with all the changes that happened to aoe3de, today the game is so far from EP, that I feel like aoe4 is way simples and requires less game knowledge to be competent. I know that in aoe4 a bow will counter a pike that will counter a cav. For all I know looking at changes in aoe3de, It woundnt surprise me if a pike pulls a machine gun and actually counters skims today
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Re: What's stopping you from playing AoE4?

Post by dicktator_ »

I agree with GoodSpeed about aoe4, unfun micro and unsatisfying macro. To be fair I haven't played aoe4 since 2021, but I don't think those things can be fixed with patches. These days I don't really play much RTS outside of grinding aoe3 if there's a tournament, but if the urge hit me again to play something other than aoe3 I'd probably play aoe2 or sc2 over aoe4.

Regarding the barrier of entry, for me it's more going from being decent at an RTS to being bad that makes it hard than time or learning curve.
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