EPL2 Maps Feedback

What are your favorite maps in EPL2 (3 choices)

Fraser River
13
11%
Dhaka
10
9%
Bering Strait
7
6%
Iowa
7
6%
Wadmalaw
8
7%
Manchuria
20
17%
Kamchatcha
17
15%
Adirondacks
9
8%
Lumaco
4
3%
Tuparro
5
4%
High Plains
15
13%
 
Total votes: 115

User avatar
France Rikikipu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1679
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
ESO: p-of
Location: In your base

EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Rikikipu »

Hello,
I'd like to take the opportunity of EPL2 to get your feedbacks about maps showcased in that tourney.

Some random questions:
- What do you think about the new maps introduced?
- What is the map the most refreshing map in the pool?
- What is the most interesting map strategically?
- What is the map you enjoy the most watching games on?
- What map do you dislike and why?

The goal is to see what do you appreciate in order to reproduce the patterns in newer maps or what you dislike in order to fix.
Please add as much explanations as possible :)

Thanks
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

  • Quote

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hey,
Thanks for doing this work !

1) Most of the new maps are fine, unfortunately they don't synergize well as they are almost all super high TP. That's why we see Otto, Aztec or ATP every series which is getting boring.

2) Fraser River is probably the most refreshing map. I was scared it wouldn't have enough food but with two hunts in base, you can just semi ff if you want, and the double TP line and the chokes make it interesting. You can camp if you want with walls, but you also need to push out to control your TP line. As a result, we see a lot of early game action but the games also often go to lategame.

3) Fraser, for the same reasons.

4) Fraser of course, and Dhaka, although it's ruined by Port/Spain/Otto, but I guess it's because of the balance, not the map.

5) a) Bering Strait is not the greatest map imo, it's quite boring. It's basically kamchatka without the chokes and the middle TP. As a result, you don't have the option to take two TPs (and go stagecoach in some situations) and it's easy for the agressive player to pressure the 4th/5th hunt.
b) Tuparro is interesting but having two spawns that are that different kinda ruins it. It makes the age 1 and civ picking very awkward. I don't know how this can be fixed, I guess pick a spawn of the map for tournaments (just like we play on the summer version of Kamchatka).
c) Lumaco suffers from both balance and design issues. The extra wood crate favours the TP civs way more than the others (and that's why map makers shouldn't mess with starting crates), and the big cliff in the middle is not a great design imo. The West of the map can be walled super easily, and then half of the map is useless.
Australia Kawapasaka
ESOC Pro Team
Posts: 1116
Joined: Jan 25, 2019
Location: Wales (new, south)

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Kawapasaka »

I like Fraser as well and I liked the separate routes but I actually think they make countering ATP even harder since if you want to steal a TP it's probably not going to be on the line that your opponent upgrades and if they stacked the 120 wood oh well they can just grab a Nat post because that's a thing now.
ATP meta is probably the most obnoxious thing in the game at the moment.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

This ATP meta is retarded yes, blame the nat TP exp trickle...
User avatar
Great Britain TheNameDaniel
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 726
Joined: Sep 13, 2016
ESO: danielek
Location: UK

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by TheNameDaniel »

My favourite map is Dhaka. Got water, got tps got chokes, whats not to love.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Garja »

I like Tuparro, I'd say it is the most suitable for competitive play. But it could use some tweaks like moving TCs farther from each other and rebalancing resource amount.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by dansil92 »

(The tcs will move closer together if anything on tuparro. We dont need another tr15 map)

As an observer of the tournament i will say I have most enjoyed watching the games on Fraser River. Its dynamic, its spicy, I cant really say it better than whats said above.

I agree about tuparro now, having seen the games, that a tp spawn needs to be locked in with the spawn selector, though the split routes seem to be much more interesting. Feedback about the modified texture set is welcome

Dhaka is a solid map but its a little all over the place- hard to follow the game. Fun games to watch
Image
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Garja »

Rush distance has little to do with nr15 meta. It's namely a matter of having a reasonable rush distance to place stuff and move around. Basically all EP maps already have shorter rush distance than RE maps because of TC placement (more space behind TCs).
Image Image Image
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

The map I liked the most were Wadmalaw, Dhaka, Fraser river and Tuparro.

I like the form of Tuparro, not very long but very wide, it's really different from usual maps.
I highly prefer the aesthetic of the old texture set (those orange ponds are awful). Can we not tweak the colour of the tapir so that they become easier to see ?

Wadmalaw is interesting because in some sense it is a pure water map but the short rush distance, minimal resources and stage coach makes it much harder for the water player (compared to say Alaska).

Fraser river is simply great.

Dhaka is also great. It looks deceptively like old New-England but is in fact very different (I'd be happy with a balanced New-England though).
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by chronique »

Lumaco is the only map who need to be removed from esoc standar map. Like rouga said, this map is unbalance, if we don't have extra crate 99.99% of time its for obvious reason ^^.
User avatar
France Rikikipu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1679
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
ESO: p-of
Location: In your base

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

  • Quote

Post by Rikikipu »

The idea behind the +100w crate on Lumaco was to provide various opening options:
- Or being able to wall as soon as possible the west side of the map + your base quickly for a defensive play like a VC boom for instance.
- Or favouriting a water opening play by giving you extra wood to build a dock => which is a total fail, I haven't seen anyone doing this for now. I have some idea in mind, but I'd be really happy if some people have other ideas about it.
- Or being sure to start with a TP early on.

It turns out that TP are just so strong that all other options that TP become really irrelevant in practice, particularly the water one, this is really disappointing.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Rikikipu wrote:The idea behind the +100w crate on Lumaco was to provide various opening options:
- Or being able to wall as soon as possible the west side of the map + your base quickly for a defensive play like a VC boom for instance.
- Or favouriting a water opening play by giving you extra wood to build a dock => which is a total fail, I haven't seen anyone doing this for now. I have some idea in mind, but I'd be really happy if some people have other ideas about it.
- Or being sure to start with a TP early on.

It turns out that TP are just so strong that all other options that TP become really irrelevant in practice, particularly the water one, this is really disappointing.
1) You want to invest your wood as early as possibe and build your wall during transition. You're going to wall regardless of the crate start, so that extra crate doesn't really give this option.
2) Water is simply not viable on Lumaco for several reasons. I guess the biggest issue is that the sea is super far from your base so you can't defend your docks with a smaller land army (no defense advantage) and you can't defend your vills with warships.

So people will just TP start every game and it makes the TP civs even stronger than they already are.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

  • Quote

Post by harcha »

Rikikipu wrote:The idea behind the +100w crate on Lumaco was to provide various opening options:
- Or being able to wall as soon as possible the west side of the map + your base quickly for a defensive play like a VC boom for instance.
yeah this one also doesn't work when you only have 2 hunt under tc and another that is hard to herd in. TP boom just outscales everything
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by harcha »

i think if you stretched the left side of lumaco and put another hunt and mine on the left it could be a boomy map. but that would require making the passage much wider so that it's not so ez to wall off and play tr15. it would be evil to put the hunt in the middle of passage so that walling is annoying af.
also put some more trees closer to tc
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

People don't seem to go water anyway no matter what.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:People don't seem to go water anyway no matter what.
True, but on Wadmalaw and Dhaka it's not an option (although these are not ideal water maps).
User avatar
United States of America SoldieR
Pro Player
Posts: 2270
Joined: Feb 22, 2015
ESO: SoldieR
Location: Chi City

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by SoldieR »

I really dislike the horizontal tp line maps. With the line across the center, no tp in base. That creates games entirely centered around stagecoach and turns the game in nr15
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

IAmSoldieR wrote:I really dislike the horizontal tp line maps. With the line across the center, no tp in base. That creates games entirely centered around stagecoach and turns the game in nr15
I don't like it either because it forces one play style and makes the retarded civs way too strong, but it's definitely not nr15, you have to fight for the TP map.
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by dansil92 »

I am gonna set tuparro to spawn the split tp lines. I hate that the ponds are orange on the minimap, but "andes" textures all do that and there's nothing i can do about it unfortunately
Image
User avatar
Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1626
Joined: Jan 15, 2016
Location: United Kingdom

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

I've had the most fun casting on Dhaka. I also really enjoy fraser River as its a re imagination of RE rockies and was a favourite comp stomp map of mine. Adirindacks is a map I have not enjoyed.

Tupparo has been like a 6/10 for me but the TPs really need to be fixed like 2 by 2 instead of the single 4 Tp cross the middle.

Even with a standard map like manchuria at the moment it feels like water play is currently criminally underplayed, even on Dhaka water is an after thought. Is this the point we reduce native xp to 0.5xp per second and also reduce xp generation slightly of regular TPs by about 10%. That seems to be source of many complaints of the meta/maps at the moment instead of the quality of the map
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I've had the most fun casting on Dhaka. I also really enjoy fraser River as its a re imagination of RE rockies and was a favourite comp stomp map of mine. Adirindacks is a map I have not enjoyed.

Tupparo has been like a 6/10 for me but the TPs really need to be fixed like 2 by 2 instead of the single 4 Tp cross the middle.

Even with a standard map like manchuria at the moment it feels like water play is currently criminally underplayed, even on Dhaka water is an after thought. Is this the point we reduce native xp to 0.5xp per second and also reduce xp generation slightly of regular TPs by about 10%. That seems to be source of many complaints of the meta/maps at the moment instead of the quality of the map
What is weaker than TP boom in general, so it's no surprise that water is underplayed on Manchuria, which isn't a really good water map.

With the 6 whales, Dhaka now has a good sea (before you'd just get outboomed by stagecoach honestly) but the trees are quite far from the sea and the coast is quite small, which makes it nearly impossible to defend your economy.
Basically, you can't go for some small 1 dock sea boom, because then you give the TP line and get outboomed, and going full sea seems hard unless you're Port.
Anyway, not only would I reduce the native xp trickle but I would also remove it haha, because this ATP play is just retarded. Nerfing TPs is an interesting option I guess (though you'd need to nerf stagecoach more than exp), but it's a big balance change, and I'm not sure we have time to test it with DE coming.

It's sad we wasted time buffing rajputs and grens when we could have balanced the sea and the TPs :cry:
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Rohbrot »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I've had the most fun casting on Dhaka. I also really enjoy fraser River as its a re imagination of RE rockies and was a favourite comp stomp map of mine. Adirindacks is a map I have not enjoyed.

Tupparo has been like a 6/10 for me but the TPs really need to be fixed like 2 by 2 instead of the single 4 Tp cross the middle.

Even with a standard map like manchuria at the moment it feels like water play is currently criminally underplayed, even on Dhaka water is an after thought. Is this the point we reduce native xp to 0.5xp per second and also reduce xp generation slightly of regular TPs by about 10%. That seems to be source of many complaints of the meta/maps at the moment instead of the quality of the map
What is weaker than TP boom in general, so it's no surprise that water is underplayed on Manchuria, which isn't a really good water map.

With the 6 whales, Dhaka now has a good sea (before you'd just get outboomed by stagecoach honestly) but the trees are quite far from the sea and the coast is quite small, which makes it nearly impossible to defend your economy.
Basically, you can't go for some small 1 dock sea boom, because then you give the TP line and get outboomed, and going full sea seems hard unless you're Port.
Anyway, not only would I reduce the native xp trickle but I would also remove it haha, because this ATP play is just retarded. Nerfing TPs is an interesting option I guess (though you'd need to nerf stagecoach more than exp), but it's a big balance change, and I'm not sure we have time to test it with DE coming.
Agree, i would like to go sea on dhaka or manchuria,but it doesnt seem better than tp boom. I tried once going atp and sea with very good xp and wood tresures on manchuria i had really good eco but this could be only holdable with ports or azzy (wall dance).
would like to see that tp income gets nerfed that we can have more options on sea maps.i would like to see a map with only nats but amazing sea like borneo.
Spain pain train is real
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by iNcog »

I respect Dhaka as a map and know that many enjoy it. But I can't bring myself to like a map that is Chernobyl New England. I hate playing on it and don't really have much interest in games that are played on it even as a spectator. Oh you shipped a frigate? vululu what skill lol great job taking the stupid ass POND that not only protects YOUR base but also pressures the opponent's; you have a warship in your own damn base and people can easily abuse transporting stuff around.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
France iNcog
Ninja
Posts: 13236
Joined: Mar 7, 2015

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by iNcog »

I really like the other new maps that have been introduced. Including Lumaco.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: EPL2 Maps Feedback

Post by Rohbrot »

iNcog wrote:I respect Dhaka as a map and know that many enjoy it. But I can't bring myself to like a map that is Chernobyl New England. I hate playing on it and don't really have much interest in games that are played on it even as a spectator. Oh you shipped a frigate? vululu what skill lol great job taking the stupid ass POND that not only protects YOUR base but also pressures the opponent's; you have a warship in your own damn base and people can easily abuse transporting stuff around.
yeah, the pond with a frig is painfully^^ can understand what u mean and its like unkillable when ur opponent is ports with tc near or azzy with WH near pond with their ships.
Spain pain train is real

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV