Map Issues Report

[Garja]

I've had to host esoc florid a multiple time due to hunt benefitting player In bottom left of map.

Other tournament maps seem OK currently in terms of map balance usually. I guess this logic is random but I have seen many forward gold mine spawns on maps with 1 mine in base

To be fair I quickly rewatched your rehost call (just one) and I don't think that's worth calling. On Florida players often have 4 hunts around TC. If one player gets 3 it's not big deal. Same for mines (which tend to be symmetric anyway). Also deer or turkey is sort of random so it might occasionally happen that one player gets mostly turkey hunts and the other mostly deers but it's rare.

[Victor_swe]

Did anyone else call bayou "The ugly map" before u learned all The names?

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

I've had to host esoc florid a multiple time due to hunt benefitting player In bottom left of map.

Other tournament maps seem OK currently in terms of map balance usually. I guess this logic is random but I have seen many forward gold mine spawns on maps with 1 mine in base

To be fair I quickly rewatched your rehost call (just one) and I don't think that's worth calling. On Florida players often have 4 hunts around TC. If one player gets 3 it's not big deal. Same for mines (which tend to be symmetric anyway). Also deer or turkey is sort of random so it might occasionally happen that one player gets mostly turkey hunts and the other mostly deers but it's rare.

I think in my case it wasnt the number of hunts but more like the position of hunts with at 3 or 4 hunts behind the TC as well as 1 hunt forward and 2 extra hunts on the side. There would have beena gameplay adavantage as one players vills were more exposed than the other and at top level gameplay (Mitoe vs Aiz) these things matter and should be considered.

[edeholland]

Did anyone else call bayou "The ugly map" before u learned all The names?

Dagobah

[Hazza54321]

Did anyone else call bayou "The ugly map" before u learned all The names?

Did chicks call you the ugly one out of your group of mates

[look]

Guys.. in new england behind tc I take a treazure of 80food without guardians

youre just that op

Shup up please, Im just talk about a bug to fix.

[Victor_swe]

Did anyone else call bayou "The ugly map" before u learned all The names?

Did chicks call you the ugly one out of your group of mates

U know it son. Hard to compete with samwise The womanizer

[deleted_user0]

Did a huge mistake playing Bonnie and got Corona virus. Any help?

[Hazza54321]

not a map issue but more of a suggestion. Would it be possible to move tcs abit further south on bengal for team maps, and by south i mean in a tiny semi circle. That way the top spawn doesnt get so fucked as another mine could spawn up top, and is also more able to get out on the south portions of the map where the res are.

[Garja]

On Bengal team version players have 2 starting mines instead of the 3 in 1v1. That's cause otherwise spawning area gets shit load of mines. As for extra mines, there is already enough room for them to spawn there. However there is a specific intended constraint that denies the spawn on the "wall island". Removing that constraint would allow a number of mines to spawn on each side of the wall.
The issue is that spawning extra resources on the top part of the map kinda defeats the purpose of expanding south, giving safe uncontestable resources. And since 3 mines per player is prettty much enough to just reach the plantation switch in team (combined with gold crates at least) I don't think that's desireable.

One idea to avoid this issue was to add a passage in the wall. Another is to do the same but also change the wall into non crossable water (except for a small shallow bridge). That would perhaps also make the map layout less fancy.
However that was never implemented and I don't know if it will ever be.

[deleted_user]

@Development Team

Tuparro is going OOS within 10 seconds (n=4) with the following conditions: 3x human players, OBS mode, ffa, and locked teams selected.

Game did not go OOS with an AI in slot 3, with the same conditions. And it did not OOS with only 2 human players and no slot 3.

This map hasn't been played in tourney yet, so perhaps there are issues with human observers?

[vividlyplain]

@Development Team

Tuparro is going OOS within 10 seconds (n=4) with the following conditions: 3x human players, OBS mode, ffa, and locked teams selected.

Game did not go OOS with an AI in slot 3, with the same conditions. And it did not OOS with only 2 human players and no slot 3.

This map hasn't been played in tourney yet, so perhaps there are issues with human observers?

did you try rotating players? i.e. the original caster being one of 2 players playing?

[harcha]

@vividlyplain i was trying to play rohbrot and callen was watching
tried also me hosting - same issue
tried with me hosting rohbrot p2 and bot p3 - no issue
tried with me hosting callen p2 and bot p3 - no issue
video for oos here:

[deleted_user]

@Development Team

Tuparro is going OOS within 10 seconds (n=4) with the following conditions: 3x human players, OBS mode, ffa, and locked teams selected.

Game did not go OOS with an AI in slot 3, with the same conditions. And it did not OOS with only 2 human players and no slot 3.

This map hasn't been played in tourney yet, so perhaps there are issues with human observers?

did you try rotating players? i.e. the original caster being one of 2 players playing?

Original OOS: harcha vs rohbrot, me observing

also OOS'd with: rohbrot vs me, harcha observing

[deleted_user]

Fraser River with harcha vs rohbrot, me observing, does not go OOS.

[dansil92]

@harcha

regarding your issues with inconsistent starting hunts:

the way maps are coded, each player is given a "home" location where starting res are calculated from (in the diagram marked as X), and for the sake of explanation I will pretend hunts are the only relevant thing here. after this is placed, then around that certain distances are given (constraints) which define distance from this point that hunts will spawn. I have 0 variation on my hunt constraints so they can be placed precisely along a circle defined as this distance from the "X" like this:



where each circle represents the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd hunts.

but the TC also has a small distance of variation. This is done to ensure the TC is placed. If the tc constraint is set to 0 all it takes is a little rock or whatever and the tc wont spawn. So the TC floats around a small little area of about 6 tile radius or 12 tile diameter around the "home location."

So when the hunts are placed along the circles the TC los doesnt always line up with the hunts properly. Heres 2 examples, where brown circles are the herds, the yellow circle is los:






so each player in these 2 scenarios has identical starting hunts with identical distances, but they appear to be 1 hunt vs 3 hunts just because of the nature of the LOS and random placement. Theres not really any way to fix this unless all 3 hunts are put into realllllly small constraints and you end up with like 26k food sitting under your TC.

[harcha]

good explanation except there are huntscrews too sometimes :(

[deleted_user]

Tuparro obs worked fine with vividlyplain observing and me and danielek playing.

[dansil92]

In my coding (aka spawning it like literally 100 times while i fix things) i never saw a single instance of a missed starting hunt? Theres so much food on the map...

[vividlyplain]

In my coding (aka spawning it like literally 100 times while i fix things) i never saw a single instance of a missed starting hunt? Theres so much food on the map...

i don't think the issue is with the starting hunts not spawning, those are probably just a bit farther than other maps

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

So how did Esoc UIx Zavkhan make it into the patch?

Absolutely huge map, possible no rush 15 fest. Large trading route with ONLY 1 TP? and its not even in the centre hahaha ... hoping this isnt in the ESOC Maps pool or ESOC Standard Maps pool

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

yalu river isnt much better i dont think 2 starting fishing boats is needed or good for the game balance.

Guatemela is getting there and i can see the aoe2 map design inspiration coming through, starting 2 coins are far from TC and that is your only safe coin.

We all like having new maps but is there some sort of map committee which evaluates these first before being implemented into the patch?

[Hazza54321]

idk i feel like were making too many so the quality is going down

[dansil92]

There is supposed to be a second tp socket on Zavkhan, its bugged right now and theres a hotfix already made

[[Armag] diarouga]

We all like having new maps but is there some sort of map committee which evaluates these first before being implemented into the patch?

No. It sucks for the players who play in tournaments, and I've complained about that in the past, but realistically, ESOC can't create a committee of bitter guys who can say "your map is trash, it shouldn't be implemented in the patch".
Though, if map makers want to ask me my opinion about their maps, I'm very open to it, but it's unlikely to happen considering my relationship with the map makers

Back to the topic, I think Zavkhan is meant to have 2 TPs. It's an unstandard nr15 map for sure, but it's not a bad unstandard map imo. I can see different civs and play style viable there.

Yalu River is a super unstandard map, and I think that it can be very fun to play. Of course, the civ balance will suck there, and it shouldn't be added to the ESOC maps, but I'm interesting in seeing how people play it if it's added in a week tour. It forces creative play.

Guatemala doesn't have enough food and will lead to one dimensional games, because you have to fight for map control. I also don't think water play will be viable. Imo it's the least interesting of these 3 maps.