Ottomans Discussion Thread

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Italy Garja
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

not really
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by DjinnOfSorrow »

Has anyone thought about just changing ottos civ bonus? It catches a lot of flak for "free vils" so why not just patch it out and come up with a new bonus and implement some restructuring of units to balance that out. I've ran several test with tweaked stats and even adding trainable spahi(which is very op) to the fort.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by tabben »

not really
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by DjinnOfSorrow »

When I modded for my group I was our otto player and they wanted ottos nerfed into the ground which I was not going to allow but with a few tweaks its really not that bad. They got all the things they wanted and I got what I wanted and ottos did not really feel any weaker. But that is at the ms to 1lt level. My real question to the anti otto crowd is if the auto vil production is a problem what economic bonus would you rather they have? We tested years ago different options but never found a great answer to that other than making ottos late game eco(15-20 min mark) even worse.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by ChewSick »

DjinnOfSorrow wrote:Has anyone thought about just changing ottos civ bonus? It catches a lot of flak for "free vils" so why not just patch it out and come up with a new bonus and implement some restructuring of units to balance that out. I've ran several test with tweaked stats and even adding trainable spahi(which is very op) to the fort.

balancing =/= reworking
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by DjinnOfSorrow »

I don't know just a thought. As a long time otto player I would not mind a rework to bring it more in the middle between euro and asian civs. I guess in my head its more of just overhaul the whole thing rather then nerf the very little they have to being useless.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

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Post by Hazza54321 »

can otto vills save if youre housed rather than start the entire cycle again, why should china get crow and banner army saved until theyre unpoped but otto cant save a 55 second trained vill?
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:can otto vills save if youre housed rather than start the entire cycle again, why should china get crow and banner army saved until theyre unpoped but otto cant save a 55 second trained vill?

Because Otto is already easy?
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

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Post by Hazza54321 »

well i mean otto is kinda shit atm, and it makes literally zero sense for a crow to be saved and not an otto vill
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Otto is not shit at all.
Remove the 20 range abus non sense and I'm fine with that.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Gafur »

I noticed it aswell and i completly agree with hazza there. It feels like developers forgot to put that mechanic china has on otto. Would be a nice buff to ottos already very weak eco imo. And it has nothing to do with being easy when one of the games civ has the mechanic.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah they can spam many abus with their 10 vill eco for 15mins
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Well it's an issue because it affects balance. It means that now you can go for a 13/10 with mosquee+TP on 300w start.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

i dont mean they actually train u fool, just that theyre saved like the crow
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:yeah they can spam many abus with their 10 vill eco for 15mins

Stop with this 10 vill eco thing, it doesn't make sense. They can get 20-25 vills very fast and free vills is like +vills. You also have to keep in mind that the TP line is 5-10 vills depending on the map so in the end they have a 30-35 vill at 12 min, which is fine.

Also eco doesn't matter, like spain is probably not going to have much more than 35 vills at 12min either, they rely on shipments.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:i dont mean they actually train u fool, just that theyre saved like the crow

I know, but it means that if you skip the house you get +1 vill because the vill saves. So in the end you can just go for mosquee+TP on 300w start and you're just going to delay your next vill for 20sec which isn't an issue.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Gafur wrote:I noticed it aswell and i completly agree with hazza there. It feels like developers forgot to put that mechanic china has on otto. Would be a nice buff to ottos already very weak eco imo. And it has nothing to do with being easy when one of the games civ has the mechanic.

So what? The crow thing is just an exception.
Why can TWC and TAD vills build TCs and not nilla vills?
Why do paddies only cost 400w?
Why can China overpop and Russia can't?
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

also with summer palace. also hcs not spawning is also illogical, its basically 12 vills being deleted
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:also with summer palace. also hcs not spawning is also illogical, its basically 12 vills being deleted

You have to be careful.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

and you dont with china or azzy with warrior priests
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:and you dont with china or azzy with warrior priests

Right.
Otto is already the easiest civ, what do you want? The batches to complete automatically in case you miss a batch? The iddled vills to go back to work?
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

its easy and bad so your argument is kinda invalid, anyway ill wait for someone whos not biased against otto to continue discussing, bye.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:its easy and bad so your argument is kinda invalid, anyway ill wait for someone whos not biased against otto to continue discussing, bye.

My argument is totally valid.
You're suggesting to improve the quality of life of a civ which is already too easy to play. It makes no sense. Ideally, all the civs should be as hard to play.

Furthermore, it would also buff the civ (because it's +1 vill when you get housed and you could abuse that in your build order), which is not only unnecessary but also underserved.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

If we would argue that WP becomes deleted" when being fully popped, Diarouga would be totally against it aswell. Bias.

I think what hazza is saying is completely right. I don't think devs planned it this way that some units are deleted and some are not, rather forgot to change it for vanilla civs after making is better for others. And you can't really abuse it, if you are popped early it will still delay your eco.

The current system is stupid and forces you often to delete units to not lose the vills. And as mentioned before, otto is definitely not the strongest civs atm. Not too weak either though. Also, 20 abus range is just fine. In my opinion it should only be reverted if they are buffed a bit better vs goons.
Otto army variations are still slightly absurd because for example war wagons do so great vs jan/abus that people tend to spam them even if otto has zero cav lol.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Devs planned it but new devs for TAD screwed it up with China.
It should be the same for all civs but penalizing China and not making it easier for Otto.
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