Ottomans Discussion Thread

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Italy gamevideo113
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

Otto with full eco is really good. Their problem is that they are very slow to reach that point, but surely abus are not a problem in the late game.
Also, if you look what has been done to Otto on EP, you'll see that basically they recieved a few nerfs on their early game (abus rof/jan/mam), and everything else is a buff to their lategame (mosque, bombard, abus range and guard upgrade, jan combat etc). Maybe they are still too slow, but that's something that needs its own fix and not some random abus or spahi buff.
Btw, otto could have an infinite age4 spahi shipment but that wouldn't really affect their lategame strength at all imo, since they already have good age4 shipments to send.
The only real ottoman issue in the lategame is the training time of Janissaries, which is painfully slow, making the unit borderline unviable to make.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

aqwer wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I have no data, just experience. And I can tell that if you let otto get a big abus mass in age 4, it feels impossible to stop it.
And you're wrong about culvs and RC, abus kill it no problem.
Late game RC kills abus effectively, especially WW, brit port goons.
This is just wrong
aqwer wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, because abus counter goons.
Abus gun do x0.75 vs RC so they are not counter of RC.
Yea they have 0.75x vs RC but they also ignore armor...
Do i need to remind you that lategame fully upgraded abus has 92 attack?
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stupid logic. noob players can say op?
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

gamevideo113 wrote:Otto with full eco is really good. Their problem is that they are very slow to reach that point, but surely abus are not a problem in the late game.
Also, if you look what has been done to Otto on EP, you'll see that basically they recieved a few nerfs on their early game (abus rof/jan/mam), and everything else is a buff to their lategame (mosque, bombard, abus range and guard upgrade, jan combat etc). Maybe they are still too slow, but that's something that needs its own fix and not some random abus or spahi buff.
Btw, otto could have an infinite age4 spahi shipment but that wouldn't really affect their lategame strength at all imo, since they already have good age4 shipments to send.
The only real ottoman issue in the lategame is the training time of Janissaries, which is painfully slow.
Well said. So instead can we give otto age 1 mill card and age 3 plantation card instead of buffing units.
Slow training of jans can be rectified by giving "Acemi Olglan School" -20% train time along with -20% cost.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

aqwer wrote: Slow training of jans can be rectified by giving "Acemi Olglan School" -20% train time along with -20% cost.
Imo this is a good suggestion.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by duckzilla »

aqwer wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, because abus counter goons.
Abus gun do x0.75 vs RC so they are not counter of RC.
You only seem to see your half of the story.
  • Abus do siege dmg and have a 0.75 multiplier
  • Skirms have ranged dmg and face 20% ranged resistance, equivalent to a 0.8 multiplier
The difference is 5%. If RC counters your abus guns, then you may be just bad at using abus guns.


edit: I like the proposed change for "Acemi Olglan School" with jan train time, too
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

gamevideo113 wrote:
aqwer wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Late game RC kills abus effectively, especially WW, brit port goons.
This is just wrong
aqwer wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Yea, because abus counter goons.
Abus gun do x0.75 vs RC so they are not counter of RC.
Yea they have 0.75x vs RC but they also ignore armor...
Do i need to remind you that lategame fully upgraded abus has 92 attack?
I know that but in a practical game it is very difficult to squeeze 3 upgrades (plus AA) in age 2 for a civ that relies totally on crates in their early game. Abus gun do more damage to RC in late game for a unit to unit comparison but they also cost more res and pop (very important) plus the min range is big setback for their use especial when more mobile RC comes in close.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by duckzilla »

aqwer wrote:I know that but in a practical game it is very difficult to squeeze 3 upgrades (plus AA) in age 2 for a civ that relies totally on crates in their early game. Abus gun do more damage to RC in late game for a unit to unit comparison but they also cost more res and pop (very important) plus the min range is big setback for their use especial when more mobile RC comes in close.
No one is forced to send all abus gun cards. Even without it, Imperial Abus Guns do 80dmg per shot. That is more than twice as much as the next fully carded skirmisher.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

Try that yourself, they don't do good vs RC.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

They do.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by bwinner »

abus are good vs goons but bad vs ww and that's part of why ger vs otto is hopeless for otto
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by duckzilla »

Damn Germans with their stupidly overpowered cav.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Except on most maps it's really not hopeless for ottomans. Assuming you're not gonna go for a blind jan/huss without any adaptation, that is.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

somppu found a good way to counter ww and thats memeolution
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by chronique »

Revo looks realy bad vs german.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

SHUT UP NOOB
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Hawk_Girl »

unpunished revo is really strong, esp vs ger since they dont have a musk unit.

Like kaiser said some day ago in twitch I think it could make sense to move all the mosq ups to age 2, even tho that rarely comes into play, it just seems dumb in the rare case of a long colo game (esp on no tp map where that is more likely) that you are capped at 45 vills. Also idk how people say otto is bad super late? Abus is insane with 20 range and the up cards and even if jans were nerfed, jan combat was buffed so that makes up for it alot. Also AA is op af, literally upgrades otto whole army so much if you go jan abus. Also if you are talking super late game huss with cav combat isnt bad vs civs like russia that strel spam as well, although with the art up card i guess otto want to mix artillery vs strel spam super late.

I like ep otto tbh, jans and abus are less dumb like on re and their eco is way better which is also less dumb like on re. Don't think otto needs much changes just the mosq ups which would be neat but even that isnt the biggest deal tbh
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by bittersalt123 »

Petard ff is a good strat with ottos. Blow up enemy tc and ship mams ez gg
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

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Post by dansil92 »

I figure this is the best place for this:

Can abus please get some form of a negative multi vs ships? Not a massive penalty, they should still have an advantage over normal skirms, but maybe 0.6? 0.7? I just keep watching epl games on dhaka and cringing over frigates getting one shotted
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