Dutch Discussion Thread

[gibson]

people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle

or maybe you’re bad and Dutch is OP

that doesnt make sense. you have degraded into a true american at last ?

im right ur wrong cause I’m American and ur eurotrash end of story

[Hazza54321]

people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle

or maybe you’re bad and Dutch is OP

yeah he probably just has bad dutch

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle

or maybe you’re bad and Dutch is OP

that doesnt make sense. you have degraded into a true american at last ?

im right ur wrong cause I’m American and ur eurotrash end of story

I heard about Eurotruck, what is Eurotrash

[jgals]

One thing I always notice Dutch is very weak on is wood. You can’t even build a TP without making serious sacrifices. It’s like you always have to choose market upgrades vs banks vs even tcs over houses or more military buildings in fortress. I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy. Imho this is what Dutch really needs to be able to scale up alongside other civs

[deleted_user]

I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.

You're crazy

[Atomiswave]

One thing I always notice Dutch is very weak on is wood. You can’t even build a TP without making serious sacrifices. It’s like you always have to choose market upgrades vs banks vs even tcs over houses or more military buildings in fortress. I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy. Imho this is what Dutch really needs to be able to scale up alongside other civs

Quite a contrary, if given enough time to boom Dutch often manages to save enough wood for foundry and 2 or more falcs in mid or late fortress. Ofc 1000w shipment and greedy play is needed, but i have seen high level matches managing above without it.

[jgals]

K I guess I just suck. Xd but it’s not that. To get anywhere near a competitive boom going Dutch needs way more wood than any civ

[momuuu]

people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle

This is what I have felt like for a while now. If we would give this patch 5 more years and then look back on it, we'd look at dutch the way we look at japan now; everybody thought japan was OP but it turned out that if you actually tried to punish them they are quite weak.

I feel like there are too many games where people are too passive against Dutch, while Dutch players are getting away with pure greed. You shouldnt try to fight them after letting them boom for 15 minutes, I dont even know why people play like this against dutch. Many civs can at least shape the pace of the game more in their favor.

[Bachscharfschütze]

I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.

i don't know what drugs you are on but i'll take it

[jgals]

I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.

i don't know what drugs you are on but i'll take it

Right?!?
Dutch has suffered enough over the years give us some redemption
“I don’t know what drugs...”
That’s what I think every time I see someone click in as Dutch on RE...

The answer is usually marijuana and alcohol, with plans of sending losing Merc shipments

Ahh the good old days when I only played comp and hackapekls were viable

[momuuu]

Remove 5th bank. there is no need for it.

[jgals]

Remove 5th bank. there is no need for it.

its nice for we the noobs who go to long games

on the banks note, the two bank cards should be made into one

[lordraphael]

Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.

[jgals]

Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.

yea the penalty for dutch church makes it really hard to micro with dutch. I always feel like my units are too slow to really be effective. it always seems like i lose fights from that, or it takes too long for reinforcement to arrive. Cav cant even chase canon, Gruyter cant even kite

[macacoalbino]

Aren't Stradiots already a cost effective shipment? I never made the calculations...
The penalty removal is nice though i like it

[Kaiserklein]

Shipping church card for stradiots means spending a shipment + 1000g for 5 strads. Usually the strad merc shipment is 6 strads for 1000g, so you're short by 1 strad. So it's pretty bad, but ofc if you plan on using your church card for other stuff it makes sense.
Still worth mentioning that the church card is colonial, so it doesn't take a slot in fort, which is a plus. Overall I don't think the card needs a buff, if we buff 5 strads to 6 it means the shipment is basically a regular 6 strad shipment + you can get 2 more banks without any drawback + potential 30 musks in age 4, and taking a colonial slot...

[deleted_user0]

yeah imo it's fine, because it's 3 shipments in 1.

I also don't think that the penalty for the +2 banks should be removed, but I think the current penalty is too much for the benefit (although this is pretty much the case for a lot of them, so it would be kinda unfair if only dutch got theirs changed). Perhaps instead of -10% speed for all military, it can be -10% speed for vils instead. Or less HP on buildings or something.

[Garja]

Ye I agree that it should be a penalty on vills or buildings. Drastically lowering bank HP would be interesting from a balance pov.

[Hazza54321]

why not less hp on vills?, they dont need vills anyway EleGiggle

[deleted_user0]

why not less hp on vills?, they dont need vills anyway EleGiggle

could be an option, but i think its not really a penalty in most cases. But the same might be true for the building hp i guess.

So perhaps the most interesting choice would be between decreased vil speed, increased build time or increased vil train time.

personally i really like the idea of the church card where you get a bonus, but have to choose a penalty as well. I guess it would drastically change the nature of the game, so I won't advocate for using it more in aoe, but it would really cool if you could like specially your army/eco that way. Like you end up with really fast gathering vils, but with very low hp. or with a very beefy army, but very slow. or high attack but low hp, depending on what upgrades/penalties you choose.

[momuuu]

So dutch needs to get penalized for trying to boom in a way that is similair to making an extra TC as other civs?

[deleted_user0]

So dutch needs to get penalized for trying to boom in a way that is similair to making an extra TC as other civs?

eh?

that's simply how the church cards work dude. Brits get extra hp but lose speed. Fre gets eco theory but more expensive buildings. germany gets more speed but more expensive units. ports get +20% mills but -5% on all other things. spain heavy inf gets +25% hp but -15% speed.

If Dutch eco is too weak with 50 vils, just give them 55 or 60 cap instead imo. or rework the penalty so it's still something relevant but not a huge obstruction to their fighting ability. In any case, most games with dutch, either on re or ep were decided before this card came into effect anyway. it's usually much better to IV and get factories before you add the 2 banks from the church. Part of that is because of the penalty ofc.

[Garja]

Didn't EP already raised Dutch vill limit?

[deleted_user0]

no, just a bug with native tech. they could get 4 extra vils.

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.

What about 1 villager more when you start the game, but no 5th bank ?