im right ur wrong cause I’m American and ur eurotrash end of storylordraphael wrote:gibson wrote:or maybe you’re bad and Dutch is OPlordraphael wrote:people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle
that doesnt make sense. you have degraded into a true american at last ?
Dutch Discussion Thread
Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
gibson wrote:or maybe you’re bad and Dutch is OPlordraphael wrote:people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle
yeah he probably just has bad dutch
- princeofcarthage
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
I heard about Eurotruck, what is Eurotrashgibson wrote:im right ur wrong cause I’m American and ur eurotrash end of storylordraphael wrote:Show hidden quotes
that doesnt make sense. you have degraded into a true american at last ?
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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- Lancer
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
One thing I always notice Dutch is very weak on is wood. You can’t even build a TP without making serious sacrifices. It’s like you always have to choose market upgrades vs banks vs even tcs over houses or more military buildings in fortress. I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy. Imho this is what Dutch really needs to be able to scale up alongside other civs
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
jgals wrote:I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.
You're crazy
- Atomiswave
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
jgals wrote:One thing I always notice Dutch is very weak on is wood. You can’t even build a TP without making serious sacrifices. It’s like you always have to choose market upgrades vs banks vs even tcs over houses or more military buildings in fortress. I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy. Imho this is what Dutch really needs to be able to scale up alongside other civs
Quite a contrary, if given enough time to boom Dutch often manages to save enough wood for foundry and 2 or more falcs in mid or late fortress. Ofc 1000w shipment and greedy play is needed, but i have seen high level matches managing above without it.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
K I guess I just suck. Xd but it’s not that. To get anywhere near a competitive boom going Dutch needs way more wood than any civ
Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
lordraphael wrote:people are bad. dutch not OP. But they can feel OP if you misplay vs them, which brings me back to #1 people are bad.Its a vicious cycle
This is what I have felt like for a while now. If we would give this patch 5 more years and then look back on it, we'd look at dutch the way we look at japan now; everybody thought japan was OP but it turned out that if you actually tried to punish them they are quite weak.
I feel like there are too many games where people are too passive against Dutch, while Dutch players are getting away with pure greed. You shouldnt try to fight them after letting them boom for 15 minutes, I dont even know why people play like this against dutch. Many civs can at least shape the pace of the game more in their favor.
- Bachscharfschütze
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
jgals wrote: I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.
i don't know what drugs you are on but i'll take it
''brits c'est vraiment une civ de fdp''
- Kaiserklein, 2018
- Kaiserklein, 2018
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Bachscharfschütze wrote:jgals wrote: I think one of the best things that could be done to balance the Dutch would be to buff their wood crates. I would even try buffing age 2 wood crates to 900. Call me crazy.
i don't know what drugs you are on but i'll take it
Right?!?
Dutch has suffered enough over the years give us some redemption
“I don’t know what drugs...”
That’s what I think every time I see someone click in as Dutch on RE...
The answer is usually marijuana and alcohol, with plans of sending losing Merc shipments
Ahh the good old days when I only played comp and hackapekls were viable
Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Remove 5th bank. there is no need for it.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
momuuu wrote:Remove 5th bank. there is no need for it.
its nice for we the noobs who go to long games
on the banks note, the two bank cards should be made into one
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
lordraphael wrote:Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.
yea the penalty for dutch church makes it really hard to micro with dutch. I always feel like my units are too slow to really be effective. it always seems like i lose fights from that, or it takes too long for reinforcement to arrive. Cav cant even chase canon, Gruyter cant even kite
- macacoalbino
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Aren't Stradiots already a cost effective shipment? I never made the calculations...
The penalty removal is nice though i like it
The penalty removal is nice though i like it
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Shipping church card for stradiots means spending a shipment + 1000g for 5 strads. Usually the strad merc shipment is 6 strads for 1000g, so you're short by 1 strad. So it's pretty bad, but ofc if you plan on using your church card for other stuff it makes sense.
Still worth mentioning that the church card is colonial, so it doesn't take a slot in fort, which is a plus. Overall I don't think the card needs a buff, if we buff 5 strads to 6 it means the shipment is basically a regular 6 strad shipment + you can get 2 more banks without any drawback + potential 30 musks in age 4, and taking a colonial slot...
Still worth mentioning that the church card is colonial, so it doesn't take a slot in fort, which is a plus. Overall I don't think the card needs a buff, if we buff 5 strads to 6 it means the shipment is basically a regular 6 strad shipment + you can get 2 more banks without any drawback + potential 30 musks in age 4, and taking a colonial slot...
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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- Ninja
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
yeah imo it's fine, because it's 3 shipments in 1.
I also don't think that the penalty for the +2 banks should be removed, but I think the current penalty is too much for the benefit (although this is pretty much the case for a lot of them, so it would be kinda unfair if only dutch got theirs changed). Perhaps instead of -10% speed for all military, it can be -10% speed for vils instead. Or less HP on buildings or something.
I also don't think that the penalty for the +2 banks should be removed, but I think the current penalty is too much for the benefit (although this is pretty much the case for a lot of them, so it would be kinda unfair if only dutch got theirs changed). Perhaps instead of -10% speed for all military, it can be -10% speed for vils instead. Or less HP on buildings or something.
Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Ye I agree that it should be a penalty on vills or buildings. Drastically lowering bank HP would be interesting from a balance pov.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
why not less hp on vills?, they dont need vills anyway EleGiggle
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
Hazza54321 wrote:why not less hp on vills?, they dont need vills anyway EleGiggle
could be an option, but i think its not really a penalty in most cases. But the same might be true for the building hp i guess.
So perhaps the most interesting choice would be between decreased vil speed, increased build time or increased vil train time.
personally i really like the idea of the church card where you get a bonus, but have to choose a penalty as well. I guess it would drastically change the nature of the game, so I won't advocate for using it more in aoe, but it would really cool if you could like specially your army/eco that way. Like you end up with really fast gathering vils, but with very low hp. or with a very beefy army, but very slow. or high attack but low hp, depending on what upgrades/penalties you choose.
Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
So dutch needs to get penalized for trying to boom in a way that is similair to making an extra TC as other civs?
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
momuuu wrote:So dutch needs to get penalized for trying to boom in a way that is similair to making an extra TC as other civs?
eh?
that's simply how the church cards work dude. Brits get extra hp but lose speed. Fre gets eco theory but more expensive buildings. germany gets more speed but more expensive units. ports get +20% mills but -5% on all other things. spain heavy inf gets +25% hp but -15% speed.
If Dutch eco is too weak with 50 vils, just give them 55 or 60 cap instead imo. or rework the penalty so it's still something relevant but not a huge obstruction to their fighting ability. In any case, most games with dutch, either on re or ep were decided before this card came into effect anyway. it's usually much better to IV and get factories before you add the 2 banks from the church. Part of that is because of the penalty ofc.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
no, just a bug with native tech. they could get 4 extra vils.
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Re: Dutch Discussion Thread
What about 1 villager more when you start the game, but no 5th bank ?lordraphael wrote:Dutch could remain as it is. But if you wanna change it, you should remove 5th bank while buffing the church card. Remove penalty for the extra 2 banks and buff the stradiot tech to 6.
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