oops nvm guard ups on special units are 40% and its 50% for imp my baddansil92 wrote:Mmmm french skirms and cuirs with +50% in industrial age, what could go wrong
British Discussion Thread
Re: British Discussion Thread
- oxaloacetate
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
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We did as we were told
We bought and sold
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- harcha
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Re: British Discussion Thread
that's the point loloxaloacetate wrote:Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- Plantinator
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Well i think having rg Upgrades being an advantage rather than a burden is more important for the game than lets say buffing mahouts vs infantry...
Re: British Discussion Thread
I think sooxaloacetate wrote:Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
- iCourt
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Really 3 options with RG upgrades I can think of that would require little to no testing.
1. Reduce price of RG to 800w 800g to reduce the burden. It's still a burden but better. Easy method to implement.
2. Make RG a separate tech. So you are able to upgrade to Guard independently of RG. 600w 600g for first tech and a reduced price for the RG upgrade 400w 400g (could be less too). This change makes the most sense to me but is also more time consuming to implement.
3. Don't change anything. Maybe cause it isn't worth changing?
1. Reduce price of RG to 800w 800g to reduce the burden. It's still a burden but better. Easy method to implement.
2. Make RG a separate tech. So you are able to upgrade to Guard independently of RG. 600w 600g for first tech and a reduced price for the RG upgrade 400w 400g (could be less too). This change makes the most sense to me but is also more time consuming to implement.
3. Don't change anything. Maybe cause it isn't worth changing?
- gamevideo113
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Why do we want to buff Euro civs in industrial?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019
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stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
Re: British Discussion Thread
Well I agree with the first option you are proposing, the second one seems too radical. We should aim to fix the game. As for the third one, seems like the lazy option if you ask me. It is worth changing because, as many have already pointed out, it is unfair to have an overpriced tech and also it was not what was intended when it was implemented. What is the point of having special upgrades for your best units if the cost forces you to upgrade other ones?iCourt wrote:Really 3 options with RG upgrades I can think of that would require little to no testing.
1. Reduce price of RG to 800w 800g to reduce the burden. It's still a burden but better. Easy method to implement.
2. Make RG a separate tech. So you are able to upgrade to Guard independently of RG. 600w 600g for first tech and a reduced price for the RG upgrade 400w 400g (could be less too). This change makes the most sense to me but is also more time consuming to implement.
3. Don't change anything. Maybe cause it isn't worth changing?
- Kap_AOE3
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Re: British Discussion Thread
IMO its not really a buff. In example talking about the redcoats upgrade, even if the cost is changed to 800 w & g, comparing to better units such as sepoys and ashigarus with cheaper upgrades (600 w & g) it would hardly be balanced.gamevideo113 wrote:Why do we want to buff Euro civs in industrial?
- LegalPenguin
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Re: British Discussion Thread
To be fair: I do not think the change is necessary.
It's not bad that the cost goes up non-linearly. Look at the resource curve of any game, it's seldom linear.
Think of it this way: 400 resources for a decent upgrade in fortress is very expensive while 400 resources for an upgrade is cheap in industrial.
2000 resources for a super strong upgrade is expensive in industrial, but unaffordable in fortress. That's how the eco-progression in-game was meant to work.
It penalizes FI-ing without having a decent eco and gives players that are still in fortress a fighting chance while being an age down. This promotes more aggressive play, so your opponent does not get the chance to tech these strong upgrades. You still have the age bonus of very strong unit shipments and the benefits of factories early industrial, so getting the upgrades shouldn't be an impossible ask.
In the same way that players take the cost for the veteran tech into account when ageing to fortress, players should also take the cost of their industrial units into account.
It's not bad that the cost goes up non-linearly. Look at the resource curve of any game, it's seldom linear.
Think of it this way: 400 resources for a decent upgrade in fortress is very expensive while 400 resources for an upgrade is cheap in industrial.
2000 resources for a super strong upgrade is expensive in industrial, but unaffordable in fortress. That's how the eco-progression in-game was meant to work.
It penalizes FI-ing without having a decent eco and gives players that are still in fortress a fighting chance while being an age down. This promotes more aggressive play, so your opponent does not get the chance to tech these strong upgrades. You still have the age bonus of very strong unit shipments and the benefits of factories early industrial, so getting the upgrades shouldn't be an impossible ask.
In the same way that players take the cost for the veteran tech into account when ageing to fortress, players should also take the cost of their industrial units into account.
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ...
Re: British Discussion Thread
It generates a lot of issues because the opportunity cost is higher than it should be.LegalPenguin wrote:To be fair: I do not think the change is necessary.
It's not bad that the cost goes up non-linearly. Look at the resource curve of any game, it's seldom linear.
Think of it this way: 400 resources for a decent upgrade in fortress is very expensive while 400 resources for an upgrade is cheap in industrial.
2000 resources for a super strong upgrade is expensive in industrial, but unaffordable in fortress. That's how the eco-progression in-game was meant to work.
It penalizes FI-ing without having a decent eco and gives players that are still in fortress a fighting chance while being an age down. This promotes more aggressive play, so your opponent does not get the chance to tech these strong upgrades. You still have the age bonus of very strong unit shipments and the benefits of factories early industrial, so getting the upgrades shouldn't be an impossible ask.
In the same way that players take the cost for the veteran tech into account when ageing to fortress, players should also take the cost of their industrial units into account.
The change is necessary to allow civs to be played the way they were intended in the first place...
If you do not understand that, you can read my explanation about it:
Jotunir wrote:Fortress age european veteran upgrades cost 200w/200c and they add +20% hit points and attack.
Industrial age european guard upgrades cost 600w/600c and they add +30% hit points and attack.
Imperial age european Imperial upgrades cost 1500w/1500c and they add +50% hit points and attack.
Now here is the tricky part:
Industrial age european royal guard upgrades cost 1000w/1000c and they add +40% hit points and attack.
Only 10% more for 400w/400c
If you make the math, 10% hit points and attack costs 100w/100c for Fortress age, 200w/200c for Industrial Age and 300w/300c for Imperial age.
Given that Royal guard upgrades are Industrial age upgrades, +40% hit points and attack should cost 800w/800c.
Re: British Discussion Thread
While i do agree mathematically it should be 800/800 its also important not to just keep throwing euro buffs at the game (arsenal, halbs, foundry, need i continue?). Euros already have a massive advantage in industrial age with factories, heavy artillery shipments. I think from a balance perspective it keeps them in check just a little bit for the odd game that does go late, and especially for those civs with exceptional royal guard units (France, ports are good examples) its even more important to keep it balanced. I wouldnt mind seeing royal grens (otto and Russia) get a discount but jinettes does not need a buff lol
- Plantinator
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
- harcha
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Re: British Discussion Thread
asian units do scale harder, yeahPlantinator wrote:Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
also your examples of china and japan are not great here. china can literally get 4 factories and japan.... countless factories...
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- Plantinator
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Re: British Discussion Thread
Isnt that what i said? (;harcha wrote:asian units do scale harder, yeahPlantinator wrote:Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
also your examples of china and japan are not great here. china can literally get 4 factories and japan.... countless factories...
- harcha
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Re: British Discussion Thread
smth like that yeah
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: British Discussion Thread
I think this deserves a separate thread to discuss about it.
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