British Discussion Thread

User avatar
India rsy
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2202
Joined: Feb 27, 2015
Location: Lashka

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by rsy »

dansil92 wrote:Mmmm french skirms and cuirs with +50% in industrial age, what could go wrong :hmm:
oops nvm guard ups on special units are 40% and its 50% for imp my bad
User avatar
Norway oxaloacetate
Dragoon
Posts: 337
Joined: Apr 4, 2015

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by oxaloacetate »

harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?
We watched the tragedy unfold
We did as we were told
We bought and sold
It was the greatest show on earth
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

oxaloacetate wrote:
harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?
that's the point lol
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Germany Plantinator
Dragoon
Posts: 431
Joined: Feb 24, 2020
ESO: Plantinator

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Plantinator »

Well i think having rg Upgrades being an advantage rather than a burden is more important for the game than lets say buffing mahouts vs infantry...
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Howdah
Posts: 1367
Joined: Mar 31, 2020
Location: Argentina

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Jotunir »

oxaloacetate wrote:
harcha wrote:the more changes the harder. i dislike so many small changes
Didn't we pass that stage 10'000 changes ago?
I think so :lol:
User avatar
United States of America iCourt
Retired Contributor
Posts: 700
Joined: Jan 14, 2016
ESO: iCourt
Location: Monterey, California

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by iCourt »

Really 3 options with RG upgrades I can think of that would require little to no testing.

1. Reduce price of RG to 800w 800g to reduce the burden. It's still a burden but better. Easy method to implement.

2. Make RG a separate tech. So you are able to upgrade to Guard independently of RG. 600w 600g for first tech and a reduced price for the RG upgrade 400w 400g (could be less too). This change makes the most sense to me but is also more time consuming to implement.

3. Don't change anything. Maybe cause it isn't worth changing?
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1899
Joined: Apr 26, 2017
ESO: gamevideo113

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

Why do we want to buff Euro civs in industrial?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019 Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Howdah
Posts: 1367
Joined: Mar 31, 2020
Location: Argentina

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Jotunir »

iCourt wrote:Really 3 options with RG upgrades I can think of that would require little to no testing.

1. Reduce price of RG to 800w 800g to reduce the burden. It's still a burden but better. Easy method to implement.

2. Make RG a separate tech. So you are able to upgrade to Guard independently of RG. 600w 600g for first tech and a reduced price for the RG upgrade 400w 400g (could be less too). This change makes the most sense to me but is also more time consuming to implement.

3. Don't change anything. Maybe cause it isn't worth changing?
Well I agree with the first option you are proposing, the second one seems too radical. We should aim to fix the game. As for the third one, seems like the lazy option if you ask me. It is worth changing because, as many have already pointed out, it is unfair to have an overpriced tech and also it was not what was intended when it was implemented. What is the point of having special upgrades for your best units if the cost forces you to upgrade other ones?
User avatar
Mexico Kap_AOE3
Musketeer
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 1, 2019
ESO: _Kap
Location: Morelia, Mexico
GameRanger ID: 9118960

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Kap_AOE3 »

gamevideo113 wrote:Why do we want to buff Euro civs in industrial?
IMO its not really a buff. In example talking about the redcoats upgrade, even if the cost is changed to 800 w & g, comparing to better units such as sepoys and ashigarus with cheaper upgrades (600 w & g) it would hardly be balanced.
:pop:
User avatar
Belgium LegalPenguin
Musketeer
Posts: 77
Joined: Jun 12, 2017
ESO: LegalPenguin
Location: Ghent

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by LegalPenguin »

To be fair: I do not think the change is necessary.

It's not bad that the cost goes up non-linearly. Look at the resource curve of any game, it's seldom linear.
Think of it this way: 400 resources for a decent upgrade in fortress is very expensive while 400 resources for an upgrade is cheap in industrial.
2000 resources for a super strong upgrade is expensive in industrial, but unaffordable in fortress. That's how the eco-progression in-game was meant to work.

It penalizes FI-ing without having a decent eco and gives players that are still in fortress a fighting chance while being an age down. This promotes more aggressive play, so your opponent does not get the chance to tech these strong upgrades. You still have the age bonus of very strong unit shipments and the benefits of factories early industrial, so getting the upgrades shouldn't be an impossible ask.

In the same way that players take the cost for the veteran tech into account when ageing to fortress, players should also take the cost of their industrial units into account.
Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ...
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Howdah
Posts: 1367
Joined: Mar 31, 2020
Location: Argentina

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Jotunir »

LegalPenguin wrote:To be fair: I do not think the change is necessary.

It's not bad that the cost goes up non-linearly. Look at the resource curve of any game, it's seldom linear.
Think of it this way: 400 resources for a decent upgrade in fortress is very expensive while 400 resources for an upgrade is cheap in industrial.
2000 resources for a super strong upgrade is expensive in industrial, but unaffordable in fortress. That's how the eco-progression in-game was meant to work.

It penalizes FI-ing without having a decent eco and gives players that are still in fortress a fighting chance while being an age down. This promotes more aggressive play, so your opponent does not get the chance to tech these strong upgrades. You still have the age bonus of very strong unit shipments and the benefits of factories early industrial, so getting the upgrades shouldn't be an impossible ask.

In the same way that players take the cost for the veteran tech into account when ageing to fortress, players should also take the cost of their industrial units into account.
It generates a lot of issues because the opportunity cost is higher than it should be.
The change is necessary to allow civs to be played the way they were intended in the first place...
If you do not understand that, you can read my explanation about it:
Jotunir wrote:Fortress age european veteran upgrades cost 200w/200c and they add +20% hit points and attack.
Industrial age european guard upgrades cost 600w/600c and they add +30% hit points and attack.
Imperial age european Imperial upgrades cost 1500w/1500c and they add +50% hit points and attack.
Now here is the tricky part:
Industrial age european royal guard upgrades cost 1000w/1000c and they add +40% hit points and attack.
Only 10% more for 400w/400c
If you make the math, 10% hit points and attack costs 100w/100c for Fortress age, 200w/200c for Industrial Age and 300w/300c for Imperial age.
Given that Royal guard upgrades are Industrial age upgrades, +40% hit points and attack should cost 800w/800c.
User avatar
Canada dansil92
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2231
Joined: Nov 3, 2018
ESO: dansil92

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

While i do agree mathematically it should be 800/800 its also important not to just keep throwing euro buffs at the game (arsenal, halbs, foundry, need i continue?). Euros already have a massive advantage in industrial age with factories, heavy artillery shipments. I think from a balance perspective it keeps them in check just a little bit for the odd game that does go late, and especially for those civs with exceptional royal guard units (France, ports are good examples) its even more important to keep it balanced. I wouldnt mind seeing royal grens (otto and Russia) get a discount but jinettes does not need a buff lol
Image
User avatar
Germany Plantinator
Dragoon
Posts: 431
Joined: Feb 24, 2020
ESO: Plantinator

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Plantinator »

Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

Plantinator wrote:Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
asian units do scale harder, yeah
also your examples of china and japan are not great here. china can literally get 4 factories and japan.... countless factories...
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Germany Plantinator
Dragoon
Posts: 431
Joined: Feb 24, 2020
ESO: Plantinator

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Plantinator »

harcha wrote:
Plantinator wrote:Idk but it doesnt feel like Euro civs have the advantage in age 4 especially over the tad civs (japan and china basically have factories way earlier lol)
asian units do scale harder, yeah
also your examples of china and japan are not great here. china can literally get 4 factories and japan.... countless factories...
Isnt that what i said? (;
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

smth like that yeah
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Howdah
Posts: 1367
Joined: Mar 31, 2020
Location: Argentina

Re: British Discussion Thread

Post by Jotunir »

I think this deserves a separate thread to discuss about it.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV