Germans Discussion Thread

France Kaiserklein
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Re: German Discussion Thread

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Post by Kaiserklein »

6 skirms + 2 uhlans??
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Canada dansil92
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

I personally think dropping the exiled prince for germany entirely would almost completely fix it. Also xbows getting 1.5vs HI but ya know thats for all the xbow civs
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

Kaiserklein wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:Hey, for some reason I found motivation to type in for balance threads now.
I'm proposing german tweaks for having solid army by stats but less units in general.
Uhlan hp 190 and same buffed ep dops as now. For reducing the sheer amount what you can mass with them would be basically tweak the amount of free uhlans per ages or removing them entirely from a shipment (3sw)
Would it be too much of a change if crates and 3sw would be changed to have 1 free uhlan in age 2 and 1k crates to 2 uhlan in age 3? It's probably ugly change design wise but to be honest design for many civs have already been butchered so I don't understand why german wouldn't for the greater good. With these changes we would have solid cavalry back for germans and also a buffed infantry melee unit in a game dominated by ranged units. I'd like to hear some thoughts of others who play germans in higher level.

Yeah this is close to what I suggested somewhere in this thread. Reverting uhlan hp but removing 1 uhlan from key shipments (3sw/700w/700g + 1 uhlan, 8 skirms + 2 uhlans etc).

I really hate the idea of changing the shipments. Would rather increase the cost of uhlans to 55 100 or something.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:Hey, for some reason I found motivation to type in for balance threads now.
I'm proposing german tweaks for having solid army by stats but less units in general.
Uhlan hp 190 and same buffed ep dops as now. For reducing the sheer amount what you can mass with them would be basically tweak the amount of free uhlans per ages or removing them entirely from a shipment (3sw)
Would it be too much of a change if crates and 3sw would be changed to have 1 free uhlan in age 2 and 1k crates to 2 uhlan in age 3? It's probably ugly change design wise but to be honest design for many civs have already been butchered so I don't understand why german wouldn't for the greater good. With these changes we would have solid cavalry back for germans and also a buffed infantry melee unit in a game dominated by ranged units. I'd like to hear some thoughts of others who play germans in higher level.

Yeah this is close to what I suggested somewhere in this thread. Reverting uhlan hp but removing 1 uhlan from key shipments (3sw/700w/700g + 1 uhlan, 8 skirms + 2 uhlans etc).

I really hate the idea of changing the shipments. Would rather increase the cost of uhlans to 55 100 or something.

Lol, increase the cost of uhlans to 55 100. This is an irrelevant change, it's barely a nerf to be honest, especially if you compare it to removing free uhlans (which is probably about -4 uhlans).
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

Definitely isn't, but ok.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Mitoe wrote:Definitely isn't, but ok.

Of course it is irrelevant.
We're talking about removing like 4 uhlans, and you suggest a 5 food nerf. You're probably going to train 10-15 uhlans in most games (because you need the vet upgrade, and in some MUs you actually want to go WW).
So you're suggesting a 50f-75f nerf. Do I really need to explain why -4uhlans is a bigger nerf than -75f?
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Mitoe »

If you're talking about also reverting the hp to 190, sure. I don't necessarily think it should be reverted to 190hp though.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Dsy »

Which germany strong? Age1 TP or Aging TP or No TP map?
Too many random variants to balance.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Buffing the units and nerfing the shipments , nerfs them on tp and buffs on non tp so i dont see that issue. If you claim it looks ā€œuglyā€, then why hasnt that argument been considered when looking at siouxs karni mata teepees, port 85f vills or brit 140w manors
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

princeofkabul wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:
princeofkabul wrote:Hey, for some reason I found motivation to type in for balance threads now.
I'm proposing german tweaks for having solid army by stats but less units in general.
Uhlan hp 190 and same buffed ep dops as now. For reducing the sheer amount what you can mass with them would be basically tweak the amount of free uhlans per ages or removing them entirely from a shipment (3sw)
Would it be too much of a change if crates and 3sw would be changed to have 1 free uhlan in age 2 and 1k crates to 2 uhlan in age 3? It's probably ugly change design wise but to be honest design for many civs have already been butchered so I don't understand why german wouldn't for the greater good. With these changes we would have solid cavalry back for germans and also a buffed infantry melee unit in a game dominated by ranged units. I'd like to hear some thoughts of others who play germans in higher level.

Or just make it so German shipments cost even more than they currently do.


Would make them unplayable in non tp maps.


They are already not played on non tp though, so I don't see it as a bad nerf
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Re: German Discussion Thread

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Post by princeofkabul »

Mitoe wrote:If you're talking about also reverting the hp to 190, sure. I don't necessarily think it should be reverted to 190hp though.


The unit itself is bad as how it is now. Uhlans are like jans for germany. I'd rather have them kept solid statwise and so you can actually take cavalry fights in colonial without getting rekt by hussars every single time. Rather change the free uhlans from key shipments in order to keep the german mass in control than tweak or nerf unit which was never the issue, but the sheer mass of them.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Regardless of balance weak uhlans are just not fun to use
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Djigit »

Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Djigit »

Kaiserklein wrote:6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans
Both these shipments are superior to their equivalents for other civs.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Goodspeed »

Djigit wrote:Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.
ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT ThE DeVs wAnTeD so it's supposed to be better, numbnuts.

8 uhlans is one of the worst shipments in the game. Without the civ bonus it's 5 uhlans, which is 750 resources. In vill seconds it's worse than 700w. Nerfing it further is madness.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

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Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:2sw+1v+2ulhans. 6skirms+3ulhans, 7ulhans, 12 jaegers. 20% merc combat. , revert dopp hp, increase xbow attack
or
3sw, all age3 shipments give 2 ulhans only, 12 jaegers, 20% merc combat, revert ulhan and dopp hp
or
a combination of the two

I thought u didn't like ugly changes, but these are some of the ugliest changes I've ever seen.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Djigit »

Goodspeed wrote:
Djigit wrote:Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.
ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT ThE DeVs wAnTeD so it's supposed to be better, numbnuts.

8 uhlans is one of the worst shipments in the game. Without the civ bonus it's 5 uhlans, which is 750 resources. In vill seconds it's worse than 700w. Nerfing it further is madness.
I don't know what to answer. That's one of the most spurious reasoning I've read. Regardless of the bonus they get 8 uhlans, not 5.
8 uhlans shipment is superior to 5 huss or 6 kanya and arguably to 6 coss or 5 meteor, and these are not even its equivalents. They are THE BEST hand cav shipments the other civs can send! Thinking in terms of resources is not valid in this case.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

ā€œ8 uhlans is one of the worst shipment in the gameā€ now ive seen it all .
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

By the same logic is 5 uhlan age 2 overpowered when without the bonus it's 3 uhlan which would be the worst age 2 cav shipment in the game
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

I know I've said it before but honestly, drop the exiled prince politician for Germany. Play a few games like that, i dont think its the uhlans that are the problem. The 8 uhlan shipment is a bit ridiculous yes but the Jaeger shipment is just so much worse let's be honest. Polish winged hussars doubly so. Germany always has strong shipments that's fine. Its that they can age so easily that *I think* is the issue
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

dansil92 wrote:I know I've said it before but honestly, drop the exiled prince politician for Germany. Play a few games like that, i dont think its the uhlans that are the problem. The 8 uhlan shipment is a bit ridiculous yes but the Jaeger shipment is just so much worse let's be honest. Polish winged hussars doubly so. Germany always has strong shipments that's fine. Its that they can age so easily that *I think* is the issue


Without the exiled prince Germany would just get stomped by nations that have access to that age up, France etc. For a good example watch aiz Vs rouga on Baja California, the slow age basically lost him the game.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by deuxballesman »

What about changing the exiled prince age up time specifically for germany? Slowing it up by 15-20s might be enough to make them more vulnerable to hard rushes. Thus making them want to stay a tad longer in colo where they shine less.
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Dsy »

Its not germany issue.
1. Random crates determines power of germany greatly: tp - notp start difference is huge
2. Some maps has tp some hasnt, so it should be solved also - make notp maps experience bonus or make only tp maps whatever...

There are soo many issues in competitive play in this game. I just dont get it why not all solved in week... Its going on for years.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: German Discussion Thread

Post by Dsy »

For example increase general xp gathering for all civs by: x% amount, make FF viable on notp maps.
Same time nerf tps: increase its cost by y amount.

In the numbers there is a sweetspot where making tps worth but ff play also viable on notp maps. It doesnt seem rocket science for me...

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