Germans Discussion Thread

[Goodspeed]

“8 uhlans is one of the worst shipment in the game” now ive seen it all .

Really? That's not something people know about?

[Goodspeed]

By the same logic is 5 uhlan age 2 overpowered when without the bonus it's 3 uhlan which would be the worst age 2 cav shipment in the game

Yep, 5 uhlans is also pretty terrible. That's why people tend not to send it.

[Garja]

Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.

ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT ThE DeVs wAnTeD so it's supposed to be better, numbnuts.

8 uhlans is one of the worst shipments in the game. Without the civ bonus it's 5 uhlans, which is 750 resources. In vill seconds it's worse than 700w. Nerfing it further is madness.

8 ulhans is fine both resources wise and in terms of effectiveness. Lot of fortress shipments are worth less than 700w in vs.

[edeholland]

Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.

ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT ThE DeVs wAnTeD so it's supposed to be better, numbnuts.

8 uhlans is one of the worst shipments in the game. Without the civ bonus it's 5 uhlans, which is 750 resources. In vill seconds it's worse than 700w. Nerfing it further is madness.

8 ulhans is fine both resources wise and in terms of effectiveness. Lot of fortress shipments are worth less than 700w in vs.

But lots of German shipments are worth way more than 700 in villager seconds.

[Garja]

2sw+1v+2ulhans. 6skirms+3ulhans, 7ulhans, 12 jaegers. 20% merc combat. , revert dopp hp, increase xbow attack
or
3sw, all age3 shipments give 2 ulhans only, 12 jaegers, 20% merc combat, revert ulhan and dopp hp
or
a combination of the two

I thought u didn't like ugly changes, but these are some of the ugliest changes I've ever seen.

I dont know what's your definition of ugly but those are some of the most "in line with the design of the civ" changes so they are all but ugly.

[Garja]

Show hidden quotes

Should have never nerfed uhlans' hp. It wasn't the problem and will never be. Instead, nerf the 9 & 8 uhlans shipments to something like 8 & 6.
"ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT gOd ThE DeVs wAnTeD!"

8 uhlans shipment alone is better than any other regular hand cav shipment. If it requires no skill to spam ashigarus, I swear it requires even less to rely on uhlans.

ItS ThE BoNuS Of tHe cIv tHaTs wHaT ThE DeVs wAnTeD so it's supposed to be better, numbnuts.

8 uhlans is one of the worst shipments in the game. Without the civ bonus it's 5 uhlans, which is 750 resources. In vill seconds it's worse than 700w. Nerfing it further is madness.

8 ulhans is fine both resources wise and in terms of effectiveness. Lot of fortress shipments are worth less than 700w in vs.

But lots of German shipments are worth way more than 700 in villager seconds.

Ger shipments without the cav bonus are strictly the same as other EU civ. 8 ulhans is not different than 4 huss, really. 50 less res but more gold than food.

[Hazza54321]

Fuck your value argument, one its a cav shipment, two , for example after a big fight where each side gets a shipment , 9 or 8 cav can easily just pop in your face and swing it. Three, uhlans are (well i guess were) good for their cost.

[Djigit]

Fuck your value argument, one its a cav shipment, two , for example after a big fight where each side gets a shipment , 9 or 8 cav can easily just pop in your face and swing it. Three, uhlans are (well i guess were) good for their cost.

This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

[Riotcoke]

So what do you do instead, take away Germany's bonus and then they're basically France with no villager bonus and shit cav compared to Huss

[Kaiserklein]

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans

Both these shipments are superior to their equivalents for other civs.

That's crazy, probably because german's civ bonus is about getting extra units in their shipments?
Btw 6 uhlans is inferior to 5 huss lol... That would just be the most stupid nerf I've ever seen.

[Goodspeed]

It's pretty much as dumb as nerfing nearly all Spanish unit shipments "because they get so many shipments!". 4 lancers became 3.
That's how they chose to ruin Spain on TAD back in the day

[Kaiserklein]

[This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

That looks like a comment from someone who doesn't understand germany at all and talks out of his ass.

[Djigit]

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans

Both these shipments are superior to their equivalents for other civs.

That's crazy, probably because german's civ bonus is about getting extra units in their shipments? Straw man argument. I never said they had to be worse than the other civs', precisely because of their additional uhlans bonus.
Btw 6 uhlans is inferior to 5 huss lol... That would just be the most stupid nerf I've ever seen. 5 huss is NOT an equivalent shipment. Age3 5 coss, 5 kanya, 7 coyotes are. Thank u, nexsht

[Riotcoke]

Show hidden quotes

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans

Both these shipments are superior to their equivalents for other civs.

That's crazy, probably because german's civ bonus is about getting extra units in their shipments? Straw man argument. I never said they had to be worse than the other civs', precisely because of their additional uhlans bonus.
Btw 6 uhlans is inferior to 5 huss lol... That would just be the most stupid nerf I've ever seen. 5 huss is NOT an equivalent shipment. Age3 5 coss, 5 kanya, 7 coyotes are.

So by the same degree what you're saying is that a civ that has more costly shipments should have shipments that are equal to civs that have standard shipments

[Djigit]

Show hidden quotes

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans

Both these shipments are superior to their equivalents for other civs.

That's crazy, probably because german's civ bonus is about getting extra units in their shipments? Straw man argument. I never said they had to be worse than the other civs', precisely because of their additional uhlans bonus.
Btw 6 uhlans is inferior to 5 huss lol... That would just be the most stupid nerf I've ever seen. 5 huss is NOT an equivalent shipment. Age3 5 coss, 5 kanya, 7 coyotes are.

So by the same degree what you're saying is that a civ that has more costly shipments should have shipments that are equal to civs that have standard shipments

I'm not sure I get your question. Do you have an example in mind?

[Riotcoke]

You're saying the Germany should have a 6 uhlan shipment instead of a 8 uhlan shipment, and then you're comparing it to 5 kanya which is roughly the same resources from a civ that has standard xp costs for shipments while Germany has 10 percent costlier shipments, it's actually more than 10 percent due to exponential growth

[Kawapasaka]

What is Germany without its shipment bonus? A civ with 2 nice vill cards? Crappy hand cav, a clunky, awkward dragoon equivalent, a cool but quite situational heavy inf unit, uncardable skirms...

[Djigit]

You're saying the Germany should have a 6 uhlan shipment instead of a 8 uhlan shipment, and then you're comparing it to 5 kanya which is roughly the same resources from a civ that has standard xp costs for shipments while Germany has 10 percent costlier shipments, it's actually more than 10 percent due to exponential growth

Let's be honest, the xp factor is only an issue on no-tp maps. It needs to be solved, I admit.
But then Spain and Ottomans have it worse.

[Riotcoke]

You're saying the Germany should have a 6 uhlan shipment instead of a 8 uhlan shipment, and then you're comparing it to 5 kanya which is roughly the same resources from a civ that has standard xp costs for shipments while Germany has 10 percent costlier shipments, it's actually more than 10 percent due to exponential growth

Let's be honest, the xp factor is only an issue on no-tp maps. It needs to be solved, I admit.
But then Spain and Ottomans have it worse.

Not really, it forces you to make a tp, if you're unable to get a tp up or lose the xp from it, i.e your enemy taking it down you're in bad stead. Also the point you're missing it that their shipments are more expensive If you compare a civ like france, which also likes to get a tp, how would it be fair nerfing germany's shipments to their level when you'll be down a shipment on your opponent most of the time?

[Garja]

6 uhlans lol. Not sure which is more ridiculous, that or 6 skirms + 2 uhlans

3 ulhans, It was obviously a typo

[Mr_Bramboy]

[This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

That looks like a comment from someone who doesn't understand germany at all and talks out of his ass.

Anyone below a certain (high) rank shouldn't be allowed to participate in these threads, anyways. A few years ago, we wanted to introduce a system to distinguish top players from lieutenants, but that idea was shot down at some point. There is a reason I don't post in these threads and it's recognizable from my gameplay.

[Garja]

It's pretty much as dumb as nerfing nearly all Spanish unit shipments "because they get so many shipments!". 4 lancers became 3.
That's how they chose to ruin Spain on TAD back in the day

5 lancer and 3 lancer is fine eh.
Same with 9 and 7 rods and 7 and 5 in colonial.
Also 8 ulhans is not nearly as bad as 3 lancers regardless of the resource value (750 vs 600 btw).

[Riotcoke]

[This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

That looks like a comment from someone who doesn't understand germany at all and talks out of his ass.

Anyone below a certain (high) rank shouldn't be allowed to participate in these threads, anyways. A few years ago, we wanted to introduce a system to distinguish top players from lieutenants, but that idea was shot down at some point. There is a reason I don't post in these threads and it's recognizable from my gameplay.

It should be relatively easy to do surely, just force people to put their eso accounts on their ESOC account.

[Garja]

[This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

That looks like a comment from someone who doesn't understand germany at all and talks out of his ass.

To be fair he has a pretty neat point, even tho he's overstating it.
The value argument is only part of the story and it's anyway dictated by the fact that an extra ulhan would be too many resources. 8ulhans and 7 skirms are incredibly good shipments if sent at the right moment. Also it's true that as Germans you have easy time massing up a balanced army because ulhans wors as both cav and anticav.

[Kaiserklein]

Anyone below a certain (high) rank shouldn't be allowed to participate in these threads, anyways. A few years ago, we wanted to introduce a system to distinguish top players from lieutenants, but that idea was shot down at some point. There is a reason I don't post in these threads and it's recognizable from my gameplay.

Idk, then you might as well remake the esoc patch team tbh, it mostly included top players. I feel like forums are supposed to be open, it would be frustrating for lower ranks to not be able to post even though some have the right ideas

[This. These shipments are anti-inf and let's say it, somewhat anti-cav too due to their number. All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches; the pinnacle of skill...

That looks like a comment from someone who doesn't understand germany at all and talks out of his ass.

To be fair he has a pretty neat point, even tho he's overstating it.
The value argument is only part of the story and it's anyway dictated by the fact that an extra ulhan would be too many resources. 8ulhans and 7 skirms are incredibly good shipments if sent at the right moment. Also it's true that as Germans you have easy time massing up a balanced army because ulhans wors as both cav and anticav.

I was mostly referring to "All a German player has to do is basically focus on his skirms batches", which is bullshit. Only focusing on training batches is basically what you do when going for an all in ff as otto, not when you play germany.
Of course german unit shipments are "incredibly good shipments", that's the point of the civ... I agree the amount of uhlans one gets should be slightly nerfed, but 6 uhlans would be a fucking joke. Just do 8 skirms + 2 uhlans / 7 skirms + 3 uhlans, two 8 uhlans shipments, 3 wws + 2 uhlans, 1000w + 2 uhlans, 12 jaegers indeed, 3 sw + 1 uhlan, 700w + 1 uhlan, 700g + 1 uhlan... And revert uhlan hp.

You're saying the Germany should have a 6 uhlan shipment instead of a 8 uhlan shipment, and then you're comparing it to 5 kanya which is roughly the same resources from a civ that has standard xp costs for shipments while Germany has 10 percent costlier shipments, it's actually more than 10 percent due to exponential growth

Let's be honest, the xp factor is only an issue on no-tp maps. It needs to be solved, I admit.
But then Spain and Ottomans have it worse.

German shipments being 10% more expensive also matters on TP maps. You're always slightly behind in your build compared to, say, france. Plus losing your TP is very common in some match ups, so in mid fortress your shipments come in quite slowly.
Btw ottos have the mosque which is more than half a TP, and spain still has lots of shipments without a TP (so they can still kind of do their ff build). So it's arguably not worse than germany.

That's crazy, probably because german's civ bonus is about getting extra units in their shipments? Straw man argument. I never said they had to be worse than the other civs', precisely because of their additional uhlans bonus.
Btw 6 uhlans is inferior to 5 huss lol... That would just be the most stupid nerf I've ever seen. 5 huss is NOT an equivalent shipment. Age3 5 coss, 5 kanya, 7 coyotes are. Thank u, nexsht

Dude, 6 uhlans is barely better than 5 kanyas lol, if any. It's worth as much as 3 dops + 2 uhlans, a colonial shipment... If you think germany is so op that their fortress shipments should be nerfed to be worth their current colonial shipments, I don't really know what to tell you tbh. Either uninstall the game or go make your own patch like Vane, probably.