Germans Discussion Thread

[[Armag] diarouga]

Not every upgrade has to be the same quality so there's nothing wrong with China's upgrades being cheaper, but I do agree royal guard should be a bonus not a burden. Should just be 600/600

Totally agree with this.

[Djigit]

It should remain as it is.

[gamevideo113]

600/600 for gendarmes or jinetes would be nuts haha, but yea it's definitely not the greatest bonus euro civs get. Maybe 800/800 would be a fine middle ground but as some people were pointing out it's not that bad of a deal. A fortress combat shipment is 15% and costs virtually 1000 res, so if you keep in mind that you don't need a shipment for the royal upgrade 400/400 for 10% isn't that bad. The unit power spike between fortress and industrial is already quite big imo.

[[Armag] diarouga]

600/600 for gendarmes or jinetes would be nuts haha, but yea it's definitely not the greatest bonus euro civs get. Maybe 800/800 would be a fine middle ground but as some people were pointing out it's not that bad of a deal. A fortress combat shipment is 15% and costs virtually 1000 res, so if you keep in mind that you don't need a shipment for the royal upgrade 400/400 for 10% isn't that bad. The unit power spike between fortress and industrial is already quite big imo.

Yep but the point is that having the 600/600 normal upgrade would be better for you xD.

[Hazza54321]

Yeah id rather pay 1200 res for 30% rathet than 2000 res for 40%

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yea, in 1v1 it's just a malus, which is dumb. You have to pay 400w/400c for 10% on 20 units xD.

[gamevideo113]

600/600 for gendarmes or jinetes would be nuts haha, but yea it's definitely not the greatest bonus euro civs get. Maybe 800/800 would be a fine middle ground but as some people were pointing out it's not that bad of a deal. A fortress combat shipment is 15% and costs virtually 1000 res, so if you keep in mind that you don't need a shipment for the royal upgrade 400/400 for 10% isn't that bad. The unit power spike between fortress and industrial is already quite big imo.

Yep but the point is that having the 600/600 normal upgrade would be better for you xD.

Yea more affordable for sure but overall i like the way it is right now. Euro civs have such a better economy that they still come out on top compared to TWC civs in the late game despite their upgrades costing basically twice as many resources. TAD civs on the other hand have better upgrades but still respectable economy - TAD civs in a nutshell.

[lordraphael]

Splitting it would be best imo(if that is even possible) otherwise make it 600 600 with the exception of gendarmes and maybe jinetes. Having the gend upgrade for just 1.2 K seems way to cheap.

[duckzilla]

I think we are discussing the cost for royal guard units only because we actually talk about the Uhlan royal guard upgrade not being worth 1000w/1000c. Very subjectively, I say that many other royal guard units are strong units anyway and are worth the high upgrade cost (cuir/jinete/voltigeur/needleboy). Uhlans are not a very strong unit by themselves and an additional 10%/10% is just not worth the increased cost in their case.

If Germany would not get free Uhlans with shipments, we would talk about the Uhlan being an abominably bad unit.

[ClaiomhSolais]

Wouldn't making royal guard upgrades cheaper cause some imbalance, since not all civs benefit equally from it (like otto and russia having royal guard grenadiers)?

[zoom]

How about replacing the "Exiled Prince" politician?

[Riotcoke]

How about replacing the "Exiled Prince" politician?

I think nerfing it overall is better, replacing fast age just ruins the civ.

[zoom]

How do you figure? It might well balance it. It's a fairly intusive change, but doesn't touch any actual civilization bonus.

Nerfing Exiled Prince is an option, for sure, but would have different effects, and on all civilizations.

[gamevideo113]

Germany could have a special Exiled Prince. Maybe 70 seconds age up and 2 uhlans. I think it would be better than removing the exiled prince entirely.

[gamevideo113]

I was wondering, what if we increased germany’s shipment penalty but at the same time increase the base XP trickle? Technically this would mean that germany is less reliant on the XP they gather from in-game actions, and more from the base XP trickle (read as “buffed on non-TP and nerfed on TP maps”). The other implication is that the base trickle buff would prevail in the early game, but in the late game the overall shipment nerf would likely have a bigger impact. What i am concerned about is that finding the right values might be a bit problematic.
Let’s say the penalty is increased to 20% and the XP trickle gets buffed to 3XP/s from 2XP/s. For simplicity, let’s assume that a TP grants a steady 1.2XP/s. Also, producing villagers will net (10/25)=0.4XP/s, just to add a bit more context and try to bring the calculations close to reality.
1st shipment currently: 330 XP needed, let’s say the TP is not there yet. 330/2.4=137.5 seconds
1st shipment with the change: 360 XP needed. 360/3.4=105 seconds

2nd shipment currently: 380 XP needed, with TP. 380. 380/3.6= 105 seconds
2nd shipment currently without TP. 380/2.4= 158 seconds
2nd shipment with the change: 415 XP needed, with TP: 90 seconds
2nd shipment with the change without TP. 415/3.4= 122

Note: considering non-TP situations the change allows gemany to get their first shipment 32 seconds earlier than they would currently. The second shipment instead would arrive 36 seconds earlier. You can see the base XP buff starting to fade in the long run.

As you can see the difference between TP and non TP is smaller with the change. As previously mentioned, in the long run the base +1XP/s should matter less and the 20% should have an increased impact in the rate at which germany gets shipments.

Someone smarter and with better maths than me could figure out better numbers probably (15% penalty, +0.5XP/s). Please don’t get too focused on these number alone, try to think about this idea, on which a possible change to germany could be based.
Too complicated

German fix should simply come from tweaking uhlans imo.

[bittersalt123]

Nothing else to say other than Germans need nerf.

[Hazza54321]

man this civ is a joke. xp nerf retarded change. uhlan hp nerf retarded change. 12 jaegars good change

[deleted_user]

have to say something that doesn't nerf them too hard on no tps would be nice

[chronique]

There are tp on every map now

[Hazza54321]

200w for half the xp trickle and even then you dont want to be training nats as germans anyway. you cant even utilise the building.

[TheNameDaniel]

Please buff Germany for team, they're sooooooooooooooooooo Trash!

[duckzilla]

Make Spahi trainable at [s]mosque[/s] saloon as mercs.

[vividlyplain]

give germany trainable spahis ^^

[harcha]

petition for all civs to have trainable spahi. just fix the saloon card to train spahi instead of ronin

[chronique]

Juste give free spahi instead of free uhlan.