Germans Discussion Thread

Switzerland bobabu
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German Discussion Thread

Post by bobabu »

diarouga wrote:
bobabu wrote:India is better than german.
India isnt.


Maybe on the eso-c maps its different. But when you didnt have good hunts with germany it was gg. India 10/10 rush is very hard to deal with. You cant go for a straight ff.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bobabu wrote:
diarouga wrote:You can try to punish them in colonial, but you know as well as me that it doesnt work if the german plays well.
Yeah Im 100% for the multiplier vs vills, lol, when I see a guy with 2 uhlans who can kill a vill in 3 hits, I just cry.

But tbh that would help a lot in team but that wouldnt be enough in 1v1. Except japan/brit, you cant really beat a ger without outplaying him.
What we need to do is either to let other civs punishing their age up (but that would be an over nerf) or nerf their fortress timings, that way, civs like french or iro would follow them in age 3.
I think india,sioux,aztec,china,otto,iro and japan can deal with them.
India loose to ger, they cant punish the age3. Sioux was k before the brs nerf but now they just loose.
Azzy vs ger isnt even close, totally one sided MU.
China might beat german on cow maps but on a normal map they loose, they cant match the uhlan mass.
Otto vs ger is quite close on the RE but imo with the abus nerf ger takes it. With the iro nerf, they just get raped by ger lol.
Japan can deal with them but with the shogunate nerf, I think a ff should beat japan. Even if it doesnt, thats still a very close MU.

Only civ they really loose to on the esoc patch is brit imo.
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Post by bobabu »

diarouga wrote:
bobabu wrote:I think india,sioux,aztec,china,otto,iro and japan can deal with them.
India loose to ger, they cant punish the age3. Sioux was k before the brs nerf but now they just loose.
Azzy vs ger isnt even close, totally one sided MU.
China might beat german on cow maps but on a normal map they loose, they cant match the uhlan mass.
Otto vs ger is quite close on the RE but imo with the abus nerf ger takes it. With the iro nerf, they just get raped by ger lol.
Japan can deal with them but with the shogunate nerf, I think a ff should beat japan. Even if it doesnt, thats still a very close MU.

Only civ they really loose to on the esoc patch is brit imo.


I agree with most of what you say. I dont know what they changed in the fp. I didnt know that they changed all those civs. Before the patch british was struggeling against germany. Also I still dont think that you cant punish the ff. If you believe civ stats india is the one civ which has over 50 percent against every other civ despite being a hard civ to play. Also india was probably the best qs civ since they dominate when the map is unbalanced. I hope you can agree with me on that fact.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Before the patch brit was winning vs ger, but no one plays brit atm so you can't really see that.

I don't care about elo stats, it doesn't reflect how a MU should go. Like if you look nilla's elo, you see that ger is the best civ and spain is the 2nd worst lol, which is not true at all.

And even TAD's elo isn't representative, even if it's a bit more. According to elo, india beat iro/otto lol, port beat sioux, russia beat France, France get smashed by india etc.

That's actually because the map are unbalanced and because it was 2years ago, which means a different ger meta.
Also I bet 90% of the indians go 10/10 lol.
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Post by bobabu »

I really have no idea about the india germany mu. But maybe your right. But I still think germany beats british.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

If the brit goes age2 probably, but if he goes age 3 I don't know
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Post by momuuu »

Diarouga lets express it in numbers. How would you value all their match ups in terms of winrates? Maybe if you do that, do some other well figured out match ups so its possible to see how strong you think an advantage expresses itself in the winrate (which is quite arbitrary).

Ill start by saying I think germany wins 70% of the time vs Dutch.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I'd say ger win 90% vs dutch on the re=> hopeless MU, impossible to win
Brit vs ger would be 60-40 or 55-45 on a balanced tp map
india vs ger 45-55
sioux vs ger 40-60
china vs ger 40-60 on no cow maps
japan vs ger 50-50
azzy vs ger 40-60
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Post by fei123456 »

diarouga wrote:I''d say ger win 90% vs dutch on the re=> hopeless MU, impossible to win
Brit vs ger would be 60-40 or 55-45 on a balanced tp map
india vs ger 45-55
sioux vs ger 40-60
china vs ger 40-60 on no cow maps
japan vs ger 50-50
azzy vs ger 40-60

japan should beat german imo. age up and naginata samurai club. 495hp naginata rapes uhlan.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

The thing is that you don't age up if you play japan :P
I mean with the wall nerf.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

diarouga wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:You can punish them in colonial tho. Well it depends on the civ you are playing, but as french for example you really can

I think, if we really want to nerf germany (Im not convinced about that tho), we should start with a multiplier against vils, like on nilla. It isnt an enormous change, but it does make uhlans less interesting to trade vs vils. I usually know that whenever a vil is a bit too far from tc I can just sacrify 1 uhlan if my opponent tries to defend the vil with his cav and still kill the vil, and imo losing 1 uhlan to kill 1 vil is a good trade. If they had a 0.75 multiplier, maybe we wouldnt be able to trade like that. For info, it would make them need 7 hits to kill a cdb vs 5 atm, and 10 hits to kill an upgraded vil vs 7 atm
You can try to punish them in colonial, but you know as well as me that it doesnt work if the german plays well.
Yeah Im 100% for the multiplier vs vills, lol, when I see a guy with 2 uhlans who can kill a vill in 3 hits, I just cry.

But tbh that would help a lot in team but that wouldnt be enough in 1v1. Except japan/brit, you cant really beat a ger without outplaying him.
What we need to do is either to let other civs punishing their age up (but that would be an over nerf) or nerf their fortress timings, that way, civs like french or iro would follow them in age 3.



Well when I play mitoes ger i quite always end up losing cause hes better than me, but I feel like i can punish him a bit in colonial : force mm out, burn tp/stable, sometimes force him to build a rax before he can go age3...

We could also nerf uhlans a bit if people think they are too good, idk
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Post by Garja »

India and Brits are ok vs Germans, and Germans are ok without tp too.
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Post by fard »

Nerf germans? Cmon...
Uhlan are a strong unit but if u fight against musks ( which is a must in ur army comp vs german ) then u have to micro so hard that u trade good. Also germans anticav is strong, but got heavy weaknesses. Doppels are melee anticav that means kyte potential is very high, once u r in melee they r op. Warwagons have a long training time, no hit and run and cost way too many res.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I think a good nerf would be +1 uhlans in age2 and +2 in age3.
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Post by Marco1698 »

I think eso team should nerf German, they are too strong, my idea is have 1uhlan bonus for each card instead of 2 uhlans
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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

diarouga wrote:I think a good nerf would be +1 uhlans in age2 and +2 in age3.
This would be a great change. This also means the uhlan shipments are nerfed to 4, 7, and 8 uhlans, which is justified in my opinion.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

How can people think germany will be decent if we nerf like this lol
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Post by Mimsy for President »

How about nerfing age3 uhlans shipments. Perhaps 7 & 6 uhlans cards would be fairer. Screw the bonus civ on these 2 shipments.
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Post by Kaiserklein »

shaolinstar wrote:How about nerfing age3 uhlans shipments. Perhaps 7 &' 6 uhlans cards would be fairer. Screw the bonus civ on these 2 shipments.
Nah I think it should rather be 3 and 2 uhlans in fortress. Would be fair then.
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Post by deleted_user0 »

0.8x uhlan bonus on vills
5% slower xp rate
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Post by Mimsy for President »

kaiserklein wrote:
shaolinstar wrote:How about nerfing age3 uhlans shipments. Perhaps 7 &' 6 uhlans cards would be fairer. Screw the bonus civ on these 2 shipments.
Nah I think it should rather be 3 and 2 uhlans in fortress. Would be fair then.
Ok just compare with the other civs. Russians get 6 cossacks, most euro civs get 5 huss. 6 kanyas 5 axe riders, 5 nagi, 6 sowars, 5 meteor... You still find that fair ?
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Post by stevelance »

Make uhlan do area damage
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Post by zoom »

shaolinstar wrote:
kaiserklein wrote:Nah I think it should rather be 3 and 2 uhlans in fortress. Would be fair then.
Ok just compare with the other civs. Russians get 6 cossacks, most euro civs get 5 huss. 6 kanyas 5 axe riders, 5 nagi, 6 sowars, 5 meteor... You still find that fair ?
Its not fair, but its not supposed to be' its Germans civilization bonus, in addition to fewer shipments, after all.
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Post by noissance »

Make shipments give bonus +2 doppels instead of ulhans.
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Post by Mimsy for President »

zoom wrote:
shaolinstar wrote:Ok just compare with the other civs. Russians get 6 cossacks, most euro civs get 5 huss. 6 kanyas 5 axe riders, 5 nagi, 6 sowars, 5 meteor... You still find that fair ?
Its not fair, but its not supposed to be' its Germans civilization bonus, in addition to fewer shipments, after all.
I know, I mentioned the civs bonus and I completely agree with you. But cant we make an exception for these 2 specific shipments ? Ive been playing Germans 90% of the time lately and I know how much 9 &' 8 uhlans cards are OP. Im sure they would still bang most civs even with my nerf proposal. Everyone agrees Germans are a freaking good civ at the moment. I just cant be more objective.

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