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Austria KINGofOsmane
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23 Feb 2017, 20:13

Darwin_ wrote:
KINGofOsmane wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Lol I play russia. Tbh, they don't feel that different to RE or vanilla, just have better re-mass and like 10-second earlier timings.

haveing 5 cav in your base 10 sec sooner or later is a diffrence

The timings that are sped up the most are almost all of them, except for the initial 5 musk/coss push. That one is fairly similar to RE.

how can 10 sec be fairly similar
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United States of America Darwin_
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24 Feb 2017, 00:37

KINGofOsmane wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:
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The timings that are sped up the most are almost all of them, except for the initial 5 musk/coss push. That one is fairly similar to RE.

how can 10 sec be fairly similar
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Serbia Atomiswave
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23 Apr 2017, 17:19

I think Russia should at least get better age 3 unit shipments. 17-20 strelets is meaningless buff, first thing that comes in mind after that is 6-7 coss in age 3.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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23 Apr 2017, 17:30

Guys since when is 45f 10 seconds? Is a 5 vill age up standard now?
No Flag born2believe
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23 Apr 2017, 17:33

Weird game we're playing these days.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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13 May 2017, 21:51

Is it just me, or Russia performs very bad in this tourney? It seems that 255f for vill batch was significant.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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13 May 2017, 22:19

They look fine
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Germany lordraphael
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13 May 2017, 22:44

well they are def back on the lower side of the tier list
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France Kaiserklein
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13 May 2017, 22:48

its mostly that france and ger now beat russ pretty easily, so they just lose more match ups
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Vietnam Hazza54321
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13 May 2017, 22:51

theyre fine as a civ, low skill therefore shouldnt be that high on the tier list, however theyre still good on some maps
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Russia yurashic
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13 May 2017, 22:55

Yeah Russia needs 255 f batches back. Russia is favoured in like 3 mu's.

Hazza54321 wrote:theyre fine as a civ, low skill therefore shouldnt be that high on the tier list, however theyre still good on some maps


Low skill should not mean weak. :)
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Kiribati SirCallen
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13 May 2017, 23:02

Why not like 261f vill batches
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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13 May 2017, 23:31

Is it possible that people figured out how to play against the common Russia styles? Low skill civ as Hazza mentioned, and high skill to counter.
I don't see how they could be that much weaker after this small of a change.
'Twas a trend, perhaps?
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Serbia Atomiswave
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14 May 2017, 00:14

Goodspeed wrote:Is it possible that people figured out how to play against the common Russia styles? Low skill civ as Hazza mentioned, and high skill to counter.
I don't see how they could be that much weaker after this small of a change.
'Twas a trend, perhaps?


Its not just about Russia's buff reversal. Other civs like France and Ger had their nerfs lessened, which directly affects Russia. Now there are so few mu's where Russia is favored, which means they are back to bottom tier.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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14 May 2017, 00:15

That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
Just saying things can feel weak or strong for periods of time only because of meta shifts, not necessarily because of our changes. We should be aware of that effect and it's probably a factor here.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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14 May 2017, 00:20

Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.


I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
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Kiribati SirCallen
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14 May 2017, 02:51

Those "won against ____" are for the most part entirely subjective. For one China is probably favored in that MU.
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No Flag Zhanson10
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14 May 2017, 09:51

Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.


Buffs? You mean undoing stupid nerfs?
Vietnam Hazza54321
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14 May 2017, 11:03

they werent exactly stupid, they were top civs after all
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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14 May 2017, 12:51

Atomiswave wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.


I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
You can. RE patch hasn't changed but the way people are playing is very different from 5 years ago. For example extensive use of TPs has changed many MUs drastically.

And when you make small changes confirmation bias can often lead to buffed civs being overrated or nerfed civs being underrated, resulting in a shift in trends. You also encourage people to find new ways to play which can speed up the evolution of the meta. These are all things we have to be aware of because they can be a big factor in what the community considers unbalanced. History has shown that, even when there is a widespread belief that a civ is too strong or too weak, it can be wrong.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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14 May 2017, 16:22

So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?
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Serbia Atomiswave
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14 May 2017, 17:35

@Goodspeed

TP factor is map dependent, some maps don't have tp's, some have more, some less. Especially now, when we have esoc maps which provide great deal of variety in that regard. Now, after tp meta is set in stone, there is not much room for meta change in other departments, without buffs/nerfs to specific civ.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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14 May 2017, 17:55

__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?
No I have heard more top level players say this. Surprising then, though, that they are not seeing much play in the tournament so far.
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Tuvalu gibson
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14 May 2017, 18:05

Atomiswave wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.


I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
they don't lose to Dutch brit or soiux lol and Spain is much more difficult from the Russian side but winnable for sure
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Russia yurashic
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14 May 2017, 18:36

__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?


That is probably because you mostly play British and they are one of the few matchups where Russia does well.

In general, lets look at Russia in different MU's.

Aztec - they have more mass early on, Russia can't really fb, Aztec usually win this MU.
Sioux - it is a hard MU for Russia on RE, on EP Sioux are buffed so Sioux are favoured.
Iroquois - not quite sure because they are an unpopular civ, but I saw Iro win in both colonial and fortress.
Spain - quite close, with new lancer cards I'd say Spain is favoured.
Portugal - Port favoured.
France - France favoured, France was buffed and Russia was nerfed.
Germany - German favoured in both age 2 and age 3.
Britain - close/Russia favoured depeding on the map.
Dutch - close/Russia favoured, not quite sure.
Ottomans - Otto favoured.
India - India favoured.
China - Russia favoured.
Japan - Russia favoured.

So we have 2-5 MU's that Russia can realistically win with same skill level. It's not much.

Also @Goodspeed, you have rated Russia as the worst civ in your guide, did you change your opinion so much?

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