Great Britain Hazza54321
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14 May 2017, 18:47

yurashic wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?


That is probably because you mostly play British and they are one of the few matchups where Russia does well.

In general, lets look at Russia in different MU's.

Aztec - they have more mass early on, Russia can't really fb, Aztec usually win this MU.
Sioux - it is a hard MU for Russia on RE, on EP Sioux are buffed so Sioux are favoured.
Iroquois - not quite sure because they are an unpopular civ, but I saw Iro win in both colonial and fortress.
Spain - quite close, with new lancer cards I'd say Spain is favoured.
Portugal - Port favoured.
France - France favoured, France was buffed and Russia was nerfed.
Germany - German favoured in both age 2 and age 3.
Britain - close/Russia favoured depeding on the map.
Dutch - close/Russia favoured, not quite sure.
Ottomans - Otto favoured.
India - India favoured.
China - Russia favoured.
Japan - Russia favoured.

So we have 2-5 MU's that Russia can realistically win with same skill level. It's not much.

Also @Goodspeed, you have rated Russia as the worst civ in your guide, did you change your opinion so much?

pretty much this yea
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United States of America Darwin_
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15 May 2017, 00:53

Yeah idk about russia. They felt strong on the last EP but also kind of fake and now they seem kinda meh but less fake.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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15 May 2017, 03:08

yurashic wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?


That is probably because you mostly play British and they are one of the few matchups where Russia does well.

In general, lets look at Russia in different MU's.

Aztec - they have more mass early on, Russia can't really fb, Aztec usually win this MU.
Sioux - it is a hard MU for Russia on RE, on EP Sioux are buffed so Sioux are favoured.
Iroquois - not quite sure because they are an unpopular civ, but I saw Iro win in both colonial and fortress.
Spain - quite close, with new lancer cards I'd say Spain is favoured.
Portugal - Port favoured.
France - France favoured, France was buffed and Russia was nerfed.
Germany - German favoured in both age 2 and age 3.
Britain - close/Russia favoured depeding on the map.
Dutch - close/Russia favoured, not quite sure.
Ottomans - Otto favoured.
India - India favoured.
China - Russia favoured.
Japan - Russia favoured.

So we have 2-5 MU's that Russia can realistically win with same skill level. It's not much.

Also @Goodspeed, you have rated Russia as the worst civ in your guide, did you change your opinion so much?


Maybe I'm bias but I just disagree with a lot of ur mu's.

Russia = Aztec (close 50/50)
Russia = Fre (close 50/50)
Russia > Brit
Russia > Iro
Russia > Japan
Russia = China (close 50:50)
Russia > Dutch
Russia < Germany
Russia < Sioux
Russia < Ports
Russia = India (slightly India favored but not unwinnable for Russia IMO)
Russia < Otto
Russia = Spain (close mu imo)

Those are just my opinions feel free to disagree, I based all the mu's off a map like Adrian backs, 2/3rd hunt herdable 2 save mines and one safe tp, non atp map. Mu balance ofc would change on water maps/atp maps so yeah. But on standard maps that's my opinion of russia don't really want to start an flame war or arguments or showmatchs XD just a personal opinion I don't even notice the extra cost in vills playing on this version of patch I think it's just a mental roadblock for people XD.
No Flag umeu
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15 May 2017, 03:45

On current patch spain should beat russia. Whereas russia china should really be russia favored as long as you wont get caught offguard by some colo cheese. Otherwise i agree with the assesment. But having 4 unfavourable mus is not good enough to be considered top tier. Its probably tier 2 for sure though
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Poland pecelot
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15 May 2017, 05:33

__Uhlan__ wrote:a map like Adrian backs

I think you meant Adirondacks :oops:

On topic, I think the most recent tournament games showed that the Russians definitely do very well versus the top civ of this EP iteration, the British — a MU that used to be quite controversial in the past :!:
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No Flag umeu
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15 May 2017, 05:39

tbh i believe brits should still be fine in that mu :/ people just gotta realise they need to start making grens and outlaws depending on the map.
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France Kaiserklein
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15 May 2017, 09:58

__Uhlan__ wrote:Russia = Aztec (close 50/50) Imo azzy>russia, though it's still close
Russia = Fre (close 50/50) Clearly france>>russia on decent maps
Russia > Brit I think it's close, though harder to play from brit side
Russia > Iro honestly no clue
Russia > Japan yes
Russia = China (close 50:50) russia>china imo
Russia > Dutch yes
Russia < Germany yes
Russia < Sioux Hmm with those teepes I'm not sure anymore, used to be russia favoured though imo
Russia < Ports depends on the map
Russia = India (slightly India favored but not unwinnable for Russia IMO) I think its 60/40 for india
Russia < Otto yes
Russia = Spain (close mu imo) spain favoured imo on EP
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No Flag umeu
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15 May 2017, 11:48

I think sioux should beat russia even on re assuming hunts are decent for both and no water. On water maps russia should win both patches
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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15 May 2017, 11:56

Kaiserklein wrote:
__Uhlan__ wrote:Russia = Aztec (close 50/50) Imo azzy>russia, though it's still close
Russia = Fre (close 50/50) Clearly france>>russia on decent maps
Russia > Brit I think it's close, though harder to play from brit side
Russia > Iro honestly no clue
Russia > Japan yes
Russia = China (close 50:50) russia>china imo
Russia > Dutch yes
Russia < Germany yes
Russia < Sioux Hmm with those teepes I'm not sure anymore, used to be russia favoured though imo
Russia < Ports depends on the map
Russia = India (slightly India favored but not unwinnable for Russia IMO) I think its 60/40 for india
Russia < Otto yes
Russia = Spain (close mu imo) spain favoured imo on EP


idk I agree with most of what you said but I don't get how people think fre beat Russia idk. I think it's fair mu for sure.
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France Kaiserklein
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15 May 2017, 13:05

I don't understand how russia can beat France now ? I feel like if russia goes all in france just wins in age 2 with a decent defense, and if russia doesn't go all in france can age up safely
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sirmusket: compare that to ur piece of shit face/height
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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15 May 2017, 13:08

Kaiserklein wrote:I don't understand how russia can beat France now ? I feel like if russia goes all in france just wins in age 2 with a decent defense, and if russia doesn't go all in france can age up safely


perhaps, I just normally win this mu as russia and lose it as fre. But I haven't played it much tbh with you since the last ep. idk probs got to test it a bit more but I just feel fine as russia. I feel you can constant pressure without going all in and with a decent eco. but maybe your right, not 100% sure. I just feel in this game if you rush, the defending person has to play way better to actully win the game, it's why almost all team games the team who fb's normally wins.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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15 May 2017, 13:11

It is indeed hard to prevent France from aging up, but I think theoretically Russia can follow them up with map control and still outscale.
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France Kaiserklein
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15 May 2017, 13:34

Yeah it's easier to rush, but it doesn't mean that it's better.

@Goodspeed I don't think that russia can hold age 3 france military shipments if they age up themselves, because france will age up faster, with more eco, and better unit shipments.
sirmusket: https://imgur.com/phZoCw6
sirmusket: compare that to ur piece of shit face/height
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Netherlands momuuu
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15 May 2017, 13:43

I think between all these analysises you can conclude that the 255 vills buff made russia go from slightly on the weak side to slightly on the strong side. If you were to look at it, it seems balance patches have focused on making "slightly on the strong side" more or less the standard. With buffs to germany and france again, I think russia would be in a slightly more balanced state if they got the buff back.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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15 May 2017, 13:52

Jerom wrote:I think between all these analysises you can conclude that the 255 vills buff made russia go from slightly on the weak side to slightly on the strong side. If you were to look at it, it seems balance patches have focused on making "slightly on the strong side" more or less the standard. With buffs to germany and france again, I think russia would be in a slightly more balanced state if they got the buff back.


If Russia gets 255f vills back, then some kind of buff to Japan, China and maybe India will be needed. Even without it, I think mentioned civs deserve something. Especially Japan, on which most ppl agree has very weak early game.
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Russia yurashic
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15 May 2017, 15:07

__Uhlan__ wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:I don't understand how russia can beat France now ? I feel like if russia goes all in france just wins in age 2 with a decent defense, and if russia doesn't go all in france can age up safely


perhaps, I just normally win this mu as russia and lose it as fre. But I haven't played it much tbh with you since the last ep. idk probs got to test it a bit more but I just feel fine as russia. I feel you can constant pressure without going all in and with a decent eco. but maybe your right, not 100% sure. I just feel in this game if you rush, the defending person has to play way better to actully win the game, it's why almost all team games the team who fb's normally wins.


It's not super unfair, after all France was nerfed a bit with more expensive villagers, the removed snare effect of the scout and dragoon resistance.

If France plays age 2, the correct play from Russia is blockhouse contain with infantry spam like you do vs British. If France goes age 3, Russia should go for a timing with musketeers and cossacks, otherwise cuirs destroy all your age 2 units. The problem is that Russia has to understand what France is doing to do to react accordingly, but guess what, France is the most flexible civ with a native scout from the start, so they control the game. They can start 4 vill with 1 military building as if they want to age up and then play age 2 no problem. They can start musk huss and still age after some units. This MU is gambling if you play as Russia.
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Poland pecelot
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15 May 2017, 15:23

You can lose the scout quite often :!:
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Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
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15 May 2017, 15:43

Atomiswave wrote:
Jerom wrote:I think between all these analysises you can conclude that the 255 vills buff made russia go from slightly on the weak side to slightly on the strong side. If you were to look at it, it seems balance patches have focused on making "slightly on the strong side" more or less the standard. With buffs to germany and france again, I think russia would be in a slightly more balanced state if they got the buff back.


If Russia gets 255f vills back, then some kind of buff to Japan, China and maybe India will be needed. Even without it, I think mentioned civs deserve something. Especially Japan, on which most ppl agree has very weak early game.

I dont get what this has to do with anything in this topic.
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Serbia Atomiswave
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Posts: 794

15 May 2017, 16:02

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah it's easier to rush, but it doesn't mean that it's better.

@Goodspeed I don't think that russia can hold age 3 france military shipments if they age up themselves, because france will age up faster, with more eco, and better unit shipments.


Maybe ep team should continue buffing Russia's age 3 unit shipments....
Great Britain Hazza54321
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15 May 2017, 16:07

dont think russia need a buff
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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15 May 2017, 17:16

255fv with ger / fre / sioux buffs would be perfect, like I said before I'll never understand the reasoning of nerfing and buffing civs. Either nerf civs to one around the same strength level or buff them all to one level. I.E to brits strength or iros strength. You make the job of balancing harder with constantly buffing and nerfing becuase you change two things instead of one so you don't know the main cause of why a civ now became favored in a certain mu, if that makes any sense.
No Flag umeu
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15 May 2017, 17:57

But civ strength depends not just on their own but also on that of others, so ots hard to actually get them all around same lvl if not impossible.
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 May 2017, 03:06

Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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16 May 2017, 03:14

Darwin_ wrote:Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?


that gives them ability to do HD or tp on every start. If you get let's say 50c of 50w in tres you only have to gather 50res for HD that's insane way better then 255f vills. Also if they got 200w start + 100w it's 100% free tp which is rly insane tbh or 100% free HD if you get some small coin tres which most maps have. Imagine 300w start and getting a lucky 95w tres or something that's HD + TP in age 1 without slowing down your ageup at all. so if your going to buff them just do like 260v vills maybe or 265f vills.
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Tuvalu gibson
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16 May 2017, 03:18

if they had any changes to their crates it should be fixed 600f

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