No Flag umeu
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16 May 2017, 03:59

+100c would be better tbh. Can help with market or saved for all in rush as half a musk batch. Without significantly aktering their age up as 100f would do.
Netherlands momuuu
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16 May 2017, 09:57

Darwin_ wrote:Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?

Thats way better???
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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16 May 2017, 10:16

Yeah that would make them top civ instantly.
Germany lordraphael
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16 May 2017, 10:45

Imo +200 wood
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Italy Garja
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16 May 2017, 12:24

Probably just +100f. 255f vills was too much in the long term.
No Flag umeu
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16 May 2017, 12:24

they honestly dont need +100f...
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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16 May 2017, 12:42

+100f is also better than 255f vills. In that case it might even be viable to go for a 5v age up and get 5 coss in the enemy's base at 2:20 on 700f starts with like a 60f treasure in base or something. You could be aging to colonial at 0:20 game time...

I don't think we should be buffing this civ again unless we have a very good reason to. The competitive community seems rather divided about whether Russia is strong or weak and as long as that is the case they will stay as they are.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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16 May 2017, 13:11

+100f on a food start + good food tres could idleless 11 and have 5 cos in enemy base so early like gs said while still maintaining vill production & getting a tp/market ups from market with 400w.
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 May 2017, 13:37

Jerom wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Maybe 255 food is overdoing it. What about +1 wood crate?

Thats way better???

Yeah youre right :P I like Umeu's +1 coin crate idea more I think. I think the +1 food crate would be good if it wasn't as abusable as GS and Uhlan pointed out. Maybe have them automatically start with like 30-50 food in bank? It would give them a slightly faster first batch of vills and slightly less idle time after the last batch.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Italy Garja
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16 May 2017, 14:55

How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india
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Serbia Atomiswave
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16 May 2017, 15:18

Is it possible to add 50 resource value starting crates? Maybe some civs need just that, middle ground value.
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Poland pecelot
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16 May 2017, 15:27

First, you would need to create such an object.
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
Bolivia tedere12
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16 May 2017, 15:32

that is possible, on vanilla mod ports start with 50 wood on their bank
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Netherlands momuuu
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16 May 2017, 15:42

Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?
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Serbia Atomiswave
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16 May 2017, 15:54

pecelot wrote:First, you would need to create such an object.


Can it look the same with different value?
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Italy Garja
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16 May 2017, 16:04

Jerom wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?

1 min earlier? You mean with 11v? That is already a big drawback and if the civs gets too good with that it means it is alerady fine. 100f is the minimal direct buff you can give to Russia. If that's too much then anything is. 100g might not be abusable (btw rushing is not a bad thing at all) in that sense but it is a significant buff and also completely random.
Oh btw 5v age up is not good unless it is deccan or something. You still need wood for bh etc. Could still be a viable option but given the drawback I dont see anything wrong with that.
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Poland pecelot
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16 May 2017, 16:10

Atomiswave wrote:
pecelot wrote:First, you would need to create such an object.


Can it look the same with different value?

I'm not sure, though Tedere's comment is enough here I think :)
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
Great Britain Hazza54321
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16 May 2017, 16:40

Fixed 600f?
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 May 2017, 16:41

Garja wrote:
Jerom wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india

Your logic isnt coherent either. 100f buff isnt abusable because already rushes becuase aging 1 minute earlier doesnt change anything right garja?

1 min earlier? You mean with 11v? That is already a big drawback and if the civs gets too good with that it means it is alerady fine. 100f is the minimal direct buff you can give to Russia. If that's too much then anything is. 100g might not be abusable (btw rushing is not a bad thing at all) in that sense but it is a significant buff and also completely random.
Oh btw 5v age up is not good unless it is deccan or something. You still need wood for bh etc. Could still be a viable option but given the drawback I dont see anything wrong with that.

But if you are aging with 11 vills and no idle time it's not a drawback as you will most likely have a shipment ready to go when you would hit colonial, and you weren't idling your tc at all. Yes you missed out on gathering with 3 vills for 100 seconds in the early game, but you will most likely be able to easily make up that defecit and much more by having 5 cossacks in their base 50 seconds earlier. If you have units in their base that early, you could not only kill villagers, but you would most definitely delay their first military building significantly. 100 food is too much, I definitely agree. I think atomis is definitely on to something that some civs need like a 50 food crate or something instead of a full 100 food crate.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Italy Garja
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16 May 2017, 17:33

Again, if that's too much then civ is fine and we are all arguing changes for the sake of it.
I suspect this is the case in fact.
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United States of America __Uhlan__
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16 May 2017, 17:57

Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india


In the current meta iro and India could use buffs, India maybe not so much of a buff but maybe a rework, it's horrible that the civ is so much worse on a 100g start then they are on a wood start. and iro is just not strong imo so bad examples to use. But I don't think Russia needs any buff at all, there a fine civ good in some matchups and not so much in others, just a tier 2 solid civ.
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Poland pecelot
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16 May 2017, 18:33

I don't think a specific crate start is a reason for a complete rework of a civilisation, rather think of fixing the resources at the beginning, like in China's case.
I see a pikeman and I want it painted grey :geek:
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 May 2017, 18:48

pecelot wrote:I don't think a specific crate start is a reason for a complete rework of a civilisation, rather think of fixing the resources at the beginning, like in China's case.

But fixing india's crates is more complicated than say, for china because of India's rushing potential.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Italy Garja
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16 May 2017, 19:31

__Uhlan__ wrote:
Garja wrote:How's that abusable? To rush fast? That's already what Russia does. I mean either you agree that Russia needs a buff and then 100f is just fine or simply the civ doesnt need buffs. It is clear that Russia problem - if any at all - is being a bit slow in the current meta. In mid game they are fine and overall (considering unita, eco, and unique techs) they are objectively one of the best civs in the game.
100g is going to give them a market every time (200g is akward btw) whuch is indeeed a buff but it is forcing and doesnt have a coherent logic. You could make the same argument for any other civ that is not super efficient early in at the moment, like iro or india


In the current meta iro and India could use buffs, India maybe not so much of a buff but maybe a rework, it's horrible that the civ is so much worse on a 100g start then they are on a wood start. and iro is just not strong imo so bad examples to use. But I don't think Russia needs any buff at all, there a fine civ good in some matchups and not so much in others, just a tier 2 solid civ.


Iro and India are perfectly fine overall, altho not with the same lategame potential of let's say French, Jap or Russia. They are a bit slow like Russia but considerably better in midgame. In any case what I meant is that they don't enjoy a good reputation of very strong civs just like Russia (questionable but that's not the point here). And in fact a random 100g addition would improve their start (allowing a market everytime) but it would be completely random, again, just like in Russia case.
I agree Russia is fine in current meta. Or rather it ranges between fine and underwhelming depending on the MU and specific start (crates+treasures). A generic buff would be wrongful.
Netherlands momuuu
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16 May 2017, 20:42

Garja wrote:Again, if that's too much then civ is fine and we are all arguing changes for the sake of it.
I suspect this is the case in fact.

This does not make logical sense garja. You seem to think it does but it doesnt.

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