Russians Discussion Thread

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Italy Garja
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Well I'd argue that too, since it wouldn't be the first time you recall incorrectly. And the fact that it was reverted because "it makes no actual difference, just adds another change from the RE patch" tends to confirm that ESOC patch top board it's not on point on real state of balance/ community perceived balance.
This is even without considering the merit of who said who about that change.
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Italy Garja
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Well I'd argue that too, since it wouldn't be the first time you recall incorrectly. And the fact that it was reverted because "it makes no actual difference, just adds another change from the RE patch" tends to confirm that ESOC patch top board it's not on point on real state of balance/ community perceived balance.
This is even without considering the merit of who said who about that change.

zoom wrote:The vote was clear. Not that it means too much, of which this is ironically yet more evidence.

Can you please link the poll?

deleted_user wrote:In such cases where maths are maybe not such a tell-all it seemed Russian players thought it a fine change and non Russian players thought it not.

Seemed, is all, from memory only.

Ye, very possible. Altho I'm not either and I think it was fine even by simple math.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

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Post by richard »

zoom wrote:It was universally considered that Russians were OP after the buff. Hence, it was removed. In reality, of course, it was never making much of a difference.


Russia would simply be OP with 255f vills -- producing 60vills (you get them at 19:21 mins in game) you would have saved 300food. from these 300food you would produce 5 rusks (you simply gather the additional 94 gold as you are OP anyways), then convincingly win the battle at 19:21 mins. Russia significantly ahead, the game is yours from that point onwards as you would save additional 300food producing the next 60 vills.

EDIT: You would also reach age II at 4:20 in many cases instead of reaching age II at 4:20 in some cases, which would you make you OP.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

That was funny richard
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by momuuu »

deleted_user wrote:In such cases where maths are maybe not such a tell-all it seemed Russian players thought it a fine change and non Russian players thought it not.

Seemed, is all, from memory only.

Mathematics are necessary to get the emotions out of the equation.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user »

Getting emotions out entirely is actually impossible
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Hidddy_ »

How about 255f vils in age 1, 265f vils in age 2 and 270f vils from age 3 on?
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

To put it into perspective, 255 vills is basically like having a 0,3 food trickle in comparison to 270 vills.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by AraGun »

Please bring back 255 vills. Russia <3
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Garja wrote:260 can't be divided by 3 with an integer as result.


It doesn't matter, 260 could be sweet spot we all want....
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

86.6f per villager is the sweet spot and 85f is not?
Anything less than 5f per villager is clearly not relevant. Change starts to be significant from 5f and on. 255f is basically the minimum perceptible buff.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Garja wrote:86.6f per villager is the sweet spot and 85f is not?
Anything less than 5f per villager is clearly not relevant. Change starts to be significant from 5f and on. 255f is basically the minimum perceptible buff.


Many claim it's too much, while 260 is in your opinion insignificant? In Ports case it was 80 in earlier ep versions, then they upped it to 85 and left it that way, which proved to be ok.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

255f it's clearly not too much, but it starts to make an apreciable difference. 260f would be irrelevant in the vast majority of cases on top of being an odd number.
Port change is really not comparable. It is way more and it is not even a legit buff. 85f vills are still too cheap. 80f was even more broken.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

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Post by Atomiswave »

I don' like Port buff either, but in their case 5f clearly meant something. Anyway, I am glad almost all universally agree Russia needs some kind of buff.....
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by gamevideo113 »

255 vills and russia is ok imo.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Atomiswave wrote:I don' like Port buff either, but in their case 5f clearly meant something. Anyway, I am glad almost all universally agree Russia needs some kind of buff.....
5/3 = ~1.67
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

– Blockhouse population room increased from 5 to 10.
– Westernization unique Church improvement cost reduced from 900w to 600w.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

BH buff doesn't seem neither very useful nor driven by any partiularly sound logic.
Westernization cost, whilst a good idea on paper, it can't really be changed without becoming ridicolously cheap (600w for all those ups is a joke even if still not viable in practice). 800w would be fair but probably not worth touching for just 100w.
255f vills was actually a reasonable change. If by any chance that's too much of a buff, then I propose nerfing boyars from 15/15/15 to 15/10/10 % buff respectively for strelet, cossack and oprichnik. Boyars has always been enigmatically OP on TAD, being better than Fortress age combat cards. At 15/10/10 it would still be very good but more reasonable and in line with other cards of that type (Iro conservative tactics card).
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by IntrepidExplorer »

Garja wrote:BH buff doesn't seem neither very useful nor driven by any partiularly sound logic.
Westernization cost, whilst a good idea on paper, it can't really be changed without becoming ridicolously cheap (600w for all those ups is a joke even if still not viable in practice). 800w would be fair but probably not worth touching.
255f vills was actually a reasonable change. If by any chance that's too much of a buff, then I propose nerfing boyars from 15/15/15 to 15/10/10 % buff respectively for strelet, cossack and oprichnik. Boyars has always been enigmatically OP on TAD, being better than Fortress age combat cards. At 15/10/10 it would still be very good but more reasonable and in line with other cards of that type (Iro conservative tactics card).


Wait i thought the discussion was about buffing Russia, not nerfing them into the ground even more... why are you proposing to remove one of the best things about Russia when it is commonly perceived that they win very few matchups?
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

The net effect would still be a buff.
Also refer to my post as for the specific reasons.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Russia struggles with pop space because batch system, so upping BH pop space sounds like a good idea. On the other hand, how many BH do we build in regular game, 2 max 3 right? If you consider it like that, its very small, almost unnoticable buff.

Anyone considered buffing BH range damage slightly? I think Russia would benefit from that...
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

BHs already do feel a bit too strong in certain situations (fb contain). In general they already help Russia a lot. Also tower damage is standard across all civs.
Btw, housing isnt really a problem for Russia when one starts to realize that you dont need to always build a proxy WH in transition to be competitive.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

Then we are back to one and only 255f buff, I don't see other options.

In case Russia gets 255f vills back, China and especially Japan need to be buffed accordingly, because it will be even harder to hold rush from Russia, which is already a problem for mentioned civs...
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by lemmings121 »

Atomiswave wrote:Russia struggles with pop space because batch system, so upping BH pop space sounds like a good idea. On the other hand, how many BH do we build in regular game, 2 max 3 right? If you consider it like that, its very small, almost unnoticable buff.

Anyone considered buffing BH range damage slightly? I think Russia would benefit from that...


the benefit would be just helping a bit in the first batch, but anyway, you will build houses with 400w, so wont make much of a diference.. that change might make some 500f builds more viable, alowing you to delay a house.. but imo its not worth touching it.

Im not even convinced that the 255f russia was op.
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Re: Russian Discussion Thread

Post by Atomiswave »

I was analyzing cumulative effect throughout whole game. If you build 2 max 3 BH, thats max 10-15 pop space, which equals 1 or 1,5 house. That's nothing in terms of time and resource saving.

I agree, 255f vills was actually an adequate buff.

I would would continue buffing Russia's age 3 unit shipments, like they started with 20 strelets. Russia needs incentive to age up....

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