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Hazza54321 wrote:terrible changes xD

the old OP russian player has spoken

Hazza54321 wrote:terrible changes xD

wait why

Good changes for treaty, so you can get 99 vills without having to delete any.

Now when tourney is nearing its end, we can safely say that Russia is one of the weakest civ in current ep iteration.

In our temple of heavenly balance every civ is one of the weakest

Russia lost almost every single mu on tourney, even in very skilled hands. Doesn't that say enough, or you still think Russia has undiscovered potential which no one knows? We need cheaper vill batch back....

I feel like they are stylistically disadvantaged. Their strength lies in long colonial games which almost never happen,

they can get early map control but it is not so strong because of the amount of starting res in base which means your opponent can age and push out with a tech advantage,
all in rushes do not fair well bc of my last reason and defenders advantage,
your units are always worse,
if you age to 3 you get no tech advantage except for Opris Cav Archers and 2 Falc shipment which is not worth aging for and your eco will suck if you ff + other civs do the semi game much better than russia.

Sure they can take early map and try to starve the opponent but civs like India do a much better job at this while having other ways to boom that don't depend on time. What I mean by this is that Russia naturally booms off their tc since it produces vils at 1.5x the rate of a standard tc, but you are investing more into your eco early on since you are paying 270 food every time other civs will have spent 200 food; therefore, Russia needs to drag out the game in order for their tc boom to pay off and so they can be strong. Russia sea play is pretty nice sometimes and as a surprise factor but even then you have all the other stuff to worry about like how much your units suck.

Hidddy_ wrote:I feel like they are stylistically disadvantaged. Their strength lies in long colonial games which almost never happen,

they can get early map control but it is not so strong because of the amount of starting res in base which means your opponent can age and push out with a tech advantage,
all in rushes do not fair well bc of my last reason and defenders advantage,
your units are always worse,
if you age to 3 you get no tech advantage except for Opris Cav Archers and 2 Falc shipment which is not worth aging for and your eco will suck if you ff + other civs do the semi game much better than russia.

Sure they can take early map and try to starve the opponent but civs like India do a much better job at this while having other ways to boom that don't depend on time. What I mean by this is that Russia naturally booms off their tc since it produces vils at 1.5x the rate of a standard tc, but you are investing more into your eco early on since you are paying 270 food every time other civs will have spent 200 food; therefore, Russia needs to drag out the game in order for their tc boom to pay off and so they can be strong. Russia sea play is pretty nice sometimes and as a surprise factor but even then you have all the other stuff to worry about like how much your units suck.

You just summed up 2 Russia's biggest problems. There is no strong incentive to age uo, its pretty hard to maintain map control with relatively weak units, while at the same time forcing opponent to play long colonial, where Russia can really shines if given enough time to mass units and fight cost effective battles. I think 255 vills was nice boost, maybe even too strong in certain mu's. I think it would be adequate in current meta, cause almost all other civs are more or less buffed in certain way.

Nobody using Russia in tournaments! Players who used to use Russia a lot (Me, Hazza, Kaiser), avoid it completely now because its too weak!

Bring 255 back!

255f would be nice boost for Russia but it's not like they're that bad at the moment. It's basically the difference between making them decent and actually competitive (aka scary).

Garja wrote:255f would be nice boost for Russia but it's not like they're that bad at the moment. It's basically the difference between making them decent and actually competitive (aka scary).

It doesn't have to be 255, it could be 260....

260 can't be divided by 3 with an integer as result.

255f was retarded

Garja wrote:260 can't be divided by 3 with an integer as result.

Is it really a problem tho? Besides, i don't think 5 food makes any difference

Well Idk. 255f was ok to me.

Hazza 2017: I don't main Russia anymore, it is too weak.
Hazza 2018: 255 was retarded.

back in the day russia was a good civ

yea bring back the 255

russia shouldnt be strong anyway, theyre too easy to play

It was universally considered that Russians were OP after the buff. Hence, it was removed. In reality, of course, it was never making much of a difference.

Eh.
It was neither OP nor irrelevant. It was simply significant. And it adheres to the bonus of the civ.

In such cases where maths are maybe not such a tell-all it seemed Russian players thought it a fine change and non Russian players thought it not.

Seemed, is all, from memory only.

The vote was clear. Not that it means too much, of which this is ironically yet more evidence.

One of the wisest sentences I consider to have heard was, "When two or more smart parties disagree they are probably both right."

Not that it means too much either.

Garja wrote:Eh.
It was neither OP nor irrelevant. It was simply significant. And it adheres to the bonus of the civ.

I'm not saying it was OP, I'm saying the average vote was very clear on it being so. I'm very happy to hear you think it's significant.