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Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 23 Feb 2017, 20:13
by KINGofOsmane
Darwin_ wrote:KINGofOsmane wrote:Darwin_ wrote:Lol I play russia. Tbh, they don't feel that different to RE or vanilla, just have better re-mass and like 10-second earlier timings.
haveing 5 cav in your base 10 sec sooner or later is a diffrence
The timings that are sped up the most are almost all of them, except for the initial 5 musk/coss push. That one is fairly similar to RE.
how can 10 sec be fairly similar
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 24 Feb 2017, 00:37
by Darwin_
KINGofOsmane wrote:Darwin_ wrote:KINGofOsmane wrote:Darwin_ wrote:Lol I play russia. Tbh, they don't feel that different to RE or vanilla, just have better re-mass and like 10-second earlier timings.
haveing 5 cav in your base 10 sec sooner or later is a diffrence
how can 10 sec be fairly similar
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 17:19
by Atomiswave
I think Russia should at least get better age 3 unit shipments. 17-20 strelets is meaningless buff, first thing that comes in mind after that is 6-7 coss in age 3.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 17:30
by Goodspeed
Guys since when is 45f 10 seconds? Is a 5 vill age up standard now?
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 23 Apr 2017, 17:33
by born2believe
Weird game we're playing these days.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 21:51
by Atomiswave
Is it just me, or Russia performs very bad in this tourney? It seems that 255f for vill batch was significant.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 22:19
by deleted_user
They look fine
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 22:44
by lordraphael
well they are def back on the lower side of the tier list
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 22:48
by Kaiserklein
its mostly that france and ger now beat russ pretty easily, so they just lose more match ups
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 22:51
by Hazza54321
theyre fine as a civ, low skill therefore shouldnt be that high on the tier list, however theyre still good on some maps
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 22:55
by yurashic
Yeah Russia needs 255 f batches back. Russia is favoured in like 3 mu's.
Hazza54321 wrote:theyre fine as a civ, low skill therefore shouldnt be that high on the tier list, however theyre still good on some maps
Low skill should not mean weak. :)
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 23:02
by deleted_user
Why not like 261f vill batches
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 13 May 2017, 23:31
by Goodspeed
Is it possible that people figured out how to play against the common Russia styles? Low skill civ as Hazza mentioned, and high skill to counter.
I don't see how they could be that much weaker after this small of a change.
'Twas a trend, perhaps?
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 00:14
by Atomiswave
Goodspeed wrote:Is it possible that people figured out how to play against the common Russia styles? Low skill civ as Hazza mentioned, and high skill to counter.
I don't see how they could be that much weaker after this small of a change.
'Twas a trend, perhaps?
Its not just about Russia's buff reversal. Other civs like France and Ger had their nerfs lessened, which directly affects Russia. Now there are so few mu's where Russia is favored, which means they are back to bottom tier.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 00:15
by Goodspeed
That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
Just saying things can feel weak or strong for periods of time only because of meta shifts, not necessarily because of our changes. We should be aware of that effect and it's probably a factor here.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 00:20
by Atomiswave
Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 02:51
by deleted_user
Those "won against ____" are for the most part entirely subjective. For one China is probably favored in that MU.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 09:51
by Zhanson10
Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
Buffs? You mean undoing stupid nerfs?
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 11:03
by Hazza54321
they werent exactly stupid, they were top civs after all
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 12:51
by Goodspeed
Atomiswave wrote:Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
You can. RE patch hasn't changed but the way people are playing is very different from 5 years ago. For example extensive use of TPs has changed many MUs drastically.
And when you make small changes confirmation bias can often lead to buffed civs being overrated or nerfed civs being underrated, resulting in a shift in trends. You also encourage people to find new ways to play which can speed up the evolution of the meta. These are all things we have to be aware of because they can be a big factor in what the community considers unbalanced. History has shown that, even when there is a widespread belief that a civ is too strong or too weak, it can be wrong.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 16:22
by __Uhlan__
So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 17:35
by Atomiswave
@
Goodspeed TP factor is map dependent, some maps don't have tp's, some have more, some less. Especially now, when we have esoc maps which provide great deal of variety in that regard. Now, after tp meta is set in stone, there is not much room for meta change in other departments, without buffs/nerfs to specific civ.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 17:55
by Goodspeed
__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?
No I have heard more top level players say this. Surprising then, though, that they are not seeing much play in the tournament so far.
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 18:05
by gibson
Atomiswave wrote:Goodspeed wrote:That's 2 civs. Besides the buffs to France and Germans don't affect Russia more than other civs.
I could go on and on. They still lose to Dutch, India, Brits, Iro, Sioux, Spain etc... while being favored only against China and Japan. Whatever change happens to meta, Russia will play the same. You can't reinvent meta without big changes....
they don't lose to Dutch brit or soiux lol and Spain is much more difficult from the Russian side but winnable for sure
Re: Russian Discussion Thread
Posted: 14 May 2017, 18:36
by yurashic
__Uhlan__ wrote:So I am the only one who thinks Russia is still a top tier civ lol?
That is probably because you mostly play British and they are one of the few matchups where Russia does well.
In general, lets look at Russia in different MU's.
Aztec - they have more mass early on, Russia can't really fb, Aztec usually win this MU.
Sioux - it is a hard MU for Russia on RE, on EP Sioux are buffed so Sioux are favoured.
Iroquois - not quite sure because they are an unpopular civ, but I saw Iro win in both colonial and fortress.
Spain - quite close, with new lancer cards I'd say Spain is favoured.
Portugal - Port favoured.
France - France favoured, France was buffed and Russia was nerfed.
Germany - German favoured in both age 2 and age 3.
Britain - close/Russia favoured depeding on the map.
Dutch - close/Russia favoured, not quite sure.
Ottomans - Otto favoured.
India - India favoured.
China - Russia favoured.
Japan - Russia favoured.
So we have 2-5 MU's that Russia can realistically win with same skill level. It's not much.
Also @
Goodspeed, you have rated Russia as the worst civ in your guide, did you change your opinion so much?