Re: Chinese Discussion Thread
Posted: 31 Aug 2016, 13:07
China overestimation as usual
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britishmusketeer wrote:I think the main issue with china atm is the iron troops. The 9 iron troops is literally insane. 1 iron troop can beat 3 skirms despite costing less than 2. They also have no negative multiplier vs cav so they do better than expected against them and once they get manchu your only option is to try and outskirm them which you can't really do cost effectively.
Atomiswave wrote:britishmusketeer wrote:I think the main issue with china atm is the iron troops. The 9 iron troops is literally insane. 1 iron troop can beat 3 skirms despite costing less than 2. They also have no negative multiplier vs cav so they do better than expected against them and once they get manchu your only option is to try and outskirm them which you can't really do cost effectively.
China already got 3 nerfs, no need to nerf it more.
britishmusketeer wrote:Atomiswave wrote:britishmusketeer wrote:I think the main issue with china atm is the iron troops. The 9 iron troops is literally insane. 1 iron troop can beat 3 skirms despite costing less than 2. They also have no negative multiplier vs cav so they do better than expected against them and once they get manchu your only option is to try and outskirm them which you can't really do cost effectively.
China already got 3 nerfs, no need to nerf it more.
Well i'm not saying china needs another nerf, just that iron troops being broken should maybe be a consideration when balancing china.
Get the fuck up out of here!n0eL wrote:China overestimation as usual
Exactly! Iron Troops don't have a negative multiplier against cavalry and they must be nerfed!britishmusketeer wrote:I think the main issue with china atm is the iron troops. The 9 iron troops is literally insane. 1 iron troop can beat 3 skirms despite costing less than 2. They also have no negative multiplier vs cav so they do better than expected against them and once they get manchu your only option is to try and outskirm them which you can't really do cost effectively.
britishmusketeer wrote:If you take the example of 17 skirms vs 5 huss and 9 iron troops vs 5 huss: the 17 skirms can't beat the 5 huss even with micro, however the iron troops will beat the 5 huss even with 0 micro.
can fill the gaps better then me.mongo10 wrote:notification
mongo10 wrote:?
lemmings121 wrote:I mean... If iron troops are op as said, then there should be an op build order, something similar to what I said.
Atomiswave wrote:britishmusketeer wrote:I think the main issue with china atm is the iron troops. The 9 iron troops is literally insane. 1 iron troop can beat 3 skirms despite costing less than 2. They also have no negative multiplier vs cav so they do better than expected against them and once they get manchu your only option is to try and outskirm them which you can't really do cost effectively.
China already got 3 nerfs, no need to nerf it more.
lemmings121 wrote:I mean... If iron troops are op as said, then there should be an op build order, something similar to what I said.
lordraphael wrote:iron troops are very strong i agree. but they arent cav. Imo only handcav has the potential to break a game at least if they can only be shipped and not made ( see mams, but even hackas or stradiots can break the game if you get a good pop or your opponent has no anti cav ) . For RI you usally need a bigger mass then 10 to make them OP. Sure jeagars and iron troops are strong shipments but in the end you only have 13 /10 of them. Also the problem with china is that they have much more an anti cav problem than they have one with RI. THey cna compensate their RI weakness by producing cav but they dont really have a way to compensate their anti cav weakness except for sending manchus. ANd sending 2 merc shipments is kinda unlikely most of the time.
Atomiswave wrote:lordraphael wrote:iron troops are very strong i agree. but they arent cav. Imo only handcav has the potential to break a game at least if they can only be shipped and not made ( see mams, but even hackas or stradiots can break the game if you get a good pop or your opponent has no anti cav ) . For RI you usally need a bigger mass then 10 to make them OP. Sure jeagars and iron troops are strong shipments but in the end you only have 13 /10 of them. Also the problem with china is that they have much more an anti cav problem than they have one with RI. THey cna compensate their RI weakness by producing cav but they dont really have a way to compensate their anti cav weakness except for sending manchus. ANd sending 2 merc shipments is kinda unlikely most of the time.
Redcoats and carded changdao maybe?
lordraphael wrote:Atomiswave wrote:lordraphael wrote:iron troops are very strong i agree. but they arent cav. Imo only handcav has the potential to break a game at least if they can only be shipped and not made ( see mams, but even hackas or stradiots can break the game if you get a good pop or your opponent has no anti cav ) . For RI you usally need a bigger mass then 10 to make them OP. Sure jeagars and iron troops are strong shipments but in the end you only have 13 /10 of them. Also the problem with china is that they have much more an anti cav problem than they have one with RI. THey cna compensate their RI weakness by producing cav but they dont really have a way to compensate their anti cav weakness except for sending manchus. ANd sending 2 merc shipments is kinda unlikely most of the time.
Redcoats and carded changdao maybe?
works until you run out of shipments. Just wathc mongo sw12 if you need help to understand. He was fine until he ran out of good anti cav shipments.
Nevermind Rafufu; he just can't play Chinese very well.Atomiswave wrote:lordraphael wrote:Show hidden quotes
works until you run out of shipments. Just wathc mongo sw12 if you need help to understand. He was fine until he ran out of good anti cav shipments.
Well you should have won by then.....