Sioux Discussion Thread

[SiegeDance]

Some great ideas here. I especially like the base hunting rate buff. Sioux are pretty much food heavy for most of its units, and sioux barely need as much coin as other civs do. Their eco is mostly food, and I think if they can get steady supply of bison late game, maybe through a infinite bison card? I don't think they would require any other eco buff, even late game. Their core units are food heavy, and only heavy investment in coin is RR, which I think normal plantations would suffice to provide. But the problem that I see is plantations and farms have very essential big button upgrades which are very counter intuitive to get to. Maybe add those farm and plantation big button upgrades to teepee? And make them unlock after reaching fortress?

[Lukas_L99]

Their eco is mostly food, and I think if they can get steady supply of bison late game, maybe through a infinite bison card?

Don't you dare to steal the ideas of the treaty patch!!!

[SiegeDance]

Their eco is mostly food, and I think if they can get steady supply of bison late game, maybe through a infinite bison card?

Don't you dare to steal the ideas of the treaty patch!!!

I don't know what you are talking about. A treaty patch? Is there one lol? I'm new to this forum and haven't looked around much.

[Lukas_L99]

Their eco is mostly food, and I think if they can get steady supply of bison late game, maybe through a infinite bison card?

Don't you dare to steal the ideas of the treaty patch!!!

I don't know what you are talking about. A treaty patch? Is there one lol? I'm new to this forum and haven't looked around much.

In case you're new to this one and forums in general: I was joking.

But there is a treaty patch, yes.

[SiegeDance]

Wow, I just looked it up. Quite interesting changes.

[Laurence Drake]

native savages do not deserve ownsership of the land if they do not improve it

[SiegeDance]

A silly idea regarding RRs. Not necessarily a balance thing but just design idea. Make them anti infantry heavy cavalry ( countering both light and heavy infantry) with good ranged resistance ( ~ 30), remove their ability to counter cavalry, while retaining their anti artillery effectiveness. And also remove their light cavalry tag. Make them specialized infantry and artillery hunters, weak to melee as well as ranged cavalry both, filling the role of a falconet plus culverine type unit except siege capability. Their range would remain the same, as they are quick. And they would fall quickly to melee cav or ranged cav, and also from pikes or musks who happen to get close. I think that would make Sioux army composition a lot more interesting and varied. I think it would see great use in games that way. They already have BRs to counter cavs so RR would be a good choice in artillery or infantry heavy armies.

[deadrising78]

How about making tashunke prowlers viable? stealth is fun

[pecelot]

Maybe something like +20 HP?

[SiegeDance]

I think stealth isn't much viable in this game that much, not with the horrible los and speed penalty. And any good player will have explorer with the army if they sense some sneaky activities. I say remove stealth from tashunke, or increase their los when stealth. Maybe boost their individual hp and attack but reduce their horde bonus a little.

[SiegeDance]

But I guess their army isn't much in a need of a redesign. A few tweaks couldn't go wrong though, giving them more options for army compositions. Rifle riders and Tashunkes can be tweaked. Sioux suffer against skirms/goons. Solely because they have nothing to deal with skirms from that range, which a falconet provides for other civs or a comparable skirm unit of their own. Wakinas are good but fall to skirms. I think RRs could be tweaked to provide that. Remove their light cav tag, and remove their bonus against cav. Give them bonus against all inf. Their range would still make them highly vulnerable to goons but with wakina and AR support, they could deal with skirm/goon/falc combo. And it would require sioux to think about compositions. They are not eco civ, at least make the players indulge in warfare decisions more. That would make the civ interesting to play and less boring I guess. In colonial, they are okay. A base hunting rate buff from start is a good idea though. Or maybe hunting dogs already researched from start?

[deadrising78]

stealth can be very viable, sneaking up on cannons with jags or sneaking in tashunke in enemy skirm mass, ofc u have to keep track of the explorer. also tashunke prowlers have an okay speed in stealth. u cant remove the stealth from them lol defeats the whole purpose of having them

[SiegeDance]

With tashunkes problem is not much their speed in stealth but rather los. Jags can deal with many unit types if things go wrong, tashunkes not quite. And they drop like flies when their numbers get low, not to mention you have to have a fortress age card just to make them any good in numbers too. And if it succeeds, well you better win right then otherwise any good player won't let that happen again. But certainly it would give you a ton of advantage. I think they are individually too weak to invest resources in. You have to invest in them a lot, at least around 10 to make them good. If their individual stats were boosted a bit, and their horde bonus decreased accordingly, they would be good I guess. But as of now, ARs are reliable.

[deadrising78]

With tashunkes problem is not much their speed in stealth but rather los. Jags can deal with many unit types if things go wrong, tashunkes not quite. And they drop like flies when their numbers get low, not to mention you have to have a fortress age card just to make them any good in numbers too. And if it succeeds, well you better win right then otherwise any good player won't let that happen again. But certainly it would give you a ton of advantage. I think they are individually too weak to invest resources in. You have to invest in them a lot, at least around 10 to make them good. If their individual stats were boosted a bit, and their horde bonus decreased accordingly, they would be good I guess. But as of now, ARs are reliable.

And that is why i suggested a boost for tashunke prowlers in my previous post

[Darwin_]

Tashunke Prowlers are OK units, 12 of them being almost as effective as an 8 cuir timing push. However, their base stats are very weak, and even with all 12 they are not as strong as they should be. If the team even wants to touch them, I would suggest increasing base attack from 15 to 22, and hitpoints to 250 from 170. We should also reduce the aura effect they have on each other from 10% attack and 5% Hp for each one to just 5% attack and HP (With 12 tashunkes, this would mean that their attack would be 34 and their HP would be 400, up from 33 and 255, respectively)

[deadrising78]

they cost 250 resources each so 12 tashunkes with 34 atk and 400 hp still seems a bit weak

[SiegeDance]

The whole stealth thing kinda makes them situational I guess and very tricky to use if the enemy expects them, and all you have to do is just keep your explorer close to your army. I don't know if such changes are within the scope of this patch tbh. I think being a non eco civ, they have a very straightforward choices when it comes to it's army, with some units on the bench forever. That kinda makes the civ uninteresting to play as of now. But again, don't know if such things are within the scope of patch.

[Darwin_]

Well, tashunke prowler buffs are really only going to get sioux so far. I have some ideas for what should be changed with them:

Increase Wakina Rifle speed to 4.5.
4 villager card replaced by 5 vill card
Bow rider cost reduced to 90f 70c (originally 100f 70c)

[deadrising78]

Well, tashunke prowler buffs are really only going to get sioux so far. I have some ideas for what should be changed with them:

Increase Wakina Rifle speed to 4.5.
4 villager card replaced by 5 vill card
Bow rider cost reduced to 90f 70c (originally 100f 70c)

Wakinas are pretty good as is. The others makes sense but mostly sioux needs a buff to their eco, base gather rate or make spice trade and great hunter OP

[forgrin]

The problem with sioux is, frankly, that their composition sucks. Even 3-unit RR + BR + AR loses to skirm-goon badly, and wakina just aren't really a viable option for sioux in late fortress since they lack upgrades, plus sioux eco sucks so your opponent will always have the bigger skirm mass making BR + wakina + RR shit.

[Gendarme]

Give Sioux free Mamelukes with every shipment.

[yemshi]

Like in:
One in Age I
Two in Age II
Three in Age III
Four in Age IV
?

[Gendarme]

Like in:
Five in Age I
Six in Age II
Seven in Age III
Eight in Age IV
?

Fixed some typos, and yes.

[yemshi]

I think there might occur some bugging because Mamelukes are not meant to get the aura effect of the Sioux Warchief.

[lemmings121]

I think there might occur some bugging because Mamelukes are not meant to get the aura effect of the Sioux Warchief.

just chance the aura effect to increase ranged resistence then. mames could use a bit more rr...maybe 30% more.