Sioux Discussion Thread

User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by chronique »

A way to remove snaring from explo? (idk how to write this word)
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

n0el wrote:Just remove the unit effects and make it an eco only option. Nerfs the camp, allows Sioux to compete with other civs eco wise and allows them to wall somewhat to defend.
If you remove the hp aura completely you're almost back to RE sioux which basically dies to a musk rush. So imo we need to keep current teepees with nerfed effects (though I feel like current teepees are just kinda ugly) or to find an alternative to help sioux defend
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

chronique wrote:A way to remove snaring from explo? (idk how to write this word)
Removing snare from explo in age 1 could be an option, but imo it'd have to still be here in the later ages, as the explorer is an important unit for sioux because of the snare. And if I'm not mistaken, enabling snare only for age 2 and later is currently not possible.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
United States of America n0el
ESOC Business Team
Posts: 7068
Joined: Jul 24, 2015
ESO: jezabob
Clan: ķŒ€ ķ•˜ģš°ģŠ¤

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by n0el »

Kaiserklein wrote:
n0el wrote:Just remove the unit effects and make it an eco only option. Nerfs the camp, allows Sioux to compete with other civs eco wise and allows them to wall somewhat to defend.
If you remove the hp aura completely you're almost back to RE sioux which basically dies to a musk rush. So imo we need to keep current teepees with nerfed effects (though I feel like current teepees are just kinda ugly) or to find an alternative to help sioux defend
Im not sure about that. I think using teepees and a warhut to wall, with improved cetan bows could hold it.
mad cuz bad
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Idk if cetans without teepee buff can hold stuff like double rax jans or sepoy rush, with just a small wall like that
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
France flontier
Lancer
Intermediate Division Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
ESO: Flontier
Clan: PLOP

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by flontier »

You can crush any kind of musk rush by going to age3 in no time and spam RR/skirm tho.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

  • Quote

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

flontier wrote:You can crush any kind of musk rush by going to age3 in no time and spam RR/skirm tho.
Show me how to ff vs a jan rush :chinese:
User avatar
France flontier
Lancer
Intermediate Division Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
ESO: Flontier
Clan: PLOP

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by flontier »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
flontier wrote:You can crush any kind of musk rush by going to age3 in no time and spam RR/skirm tho.
Show me how to ff vs a jan rush :chinese:
[EP5-1-1 SP] Flontier[SI] vs bwinner[OT] - ESOC Tassili.age3yrec
(346.16 KiB) Downloaded 57 times
ESOC Tassili
ESOC Tassili
Rules: Supremacy (1v1)
Version: ESOC Patch 5.1.1
Length: 16 minutes
tho i think its not the best exemple cause its not really a pure double rax jan and he should go straight to tc and not loosing time on the tp.
But sioux can also be faster by aging with 500f and then you have RR around 7min if i remember and rip jan, you can also build 2BH and not 1bh+1stable like i did, and in this case even if you lose your tc you dont really care if your RR arrive.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

I don't think you really hold an all in musket rush with sioux ff. I mean sure you'll probably be up and get the rrs but you might just take too much damage and have a shit follow up and lose anyway. Otto is maybe a special case as they just suck vs sioux anyway and have no follow up themselves (though I think double rax jan should still beat an ff)
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Yep, otto have shit eco themselves and colo jans dont even counter cav that well so they pretty much suck vs any sioux fortress unit.
Sioux FF can hold other 2x rax rushes. I know it from old days when I used to do that. Even without TP you can beat Brit musk rush for example. On EP should be relatively easy.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: LĆ¼beck

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Naked FF can work vs a musk rush, but you can fuck up really easily and have no way of coming back. You're gonna lose your wh/tp/teepees and have like 5 RR vs 20+ jans...
User avatar
Norway aqwer
Dragoon
Posts: 411
Joined: Aug 27, 2017

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

About Tashunke Prowler:
1. Their pop cost could be eliminated bcz they already have a build limit. And remove them from corral altogether.

2. Make them trainable by Sioux warchief through "Center of Power" card while also giving stealth to wc. It will add interesting dynamic to the play plus buff to an underpowered and kinda useless card.
3. Other related cards to Tashunke Prowler can be adjusted accordingly.
#trainableSpahi
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

Another option for teepees: keep the eco and military area as it is. Except not simultaneously - make it switchable in unison like shrines.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

aqwer wrote:About Tashunke Prowler:
2. Make them trainable by Sioux warchief through "Center of Power" card while also giving stealth to wc. It will add interesting dynamic to the play plus buff to an underpowered and kinda useless card.
Underpowered and useless? I guess you have never seen sioux hero singlehandedly taking down 40 pop worth of cannons simply by going stealth
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

harcha wrote:Another option for teepees: keep the eco and military area as it is. Except not simultaneously - make it switchable in unison like shrines.
Not a fan as youd just keep it on eco until youre pushed, of which you have 10+ vills in tc anyway. So it really doesnt change much
No Flag Astaroth
Howdah
Posts: 1037
Joined: Jul 21, 2019

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Astaroth »

Sioux seem kinda strong atm tbh. The teepees compensate for the 2 things which they used to be weak against: strong HI rushes and having a weak eco.

Now it seems kind of hard to deal with them. Many civs can't rush them due to the teepees, you also can't really push in early fortress because their early Age3 and big shipments are pretty good (wakina mass, BR from age2, AR, 3 dogs...). You would also have to fight underneath teepees.

But if you wait, Sioux get this massive death ball with DS and all cav ups, which is ugly, too.

So sadly, it often seems most effective to cheese Sioux by either going for some all in 2 rax build or to play full lame walls etc.

If you compare them to eg iro in Age3, Sioux actually seem stronger: better eco due to teepees, better units over time. Iro only have an edge early on due to OP FPs.
User avatar
Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
Retired Contributor
Posts: 1626
Joined: Jan 15, 2016
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

I was just messing around with the new sioux adoption card '-40%' train time, managed to get 99 vils in 12 minutes on deccan, definitely not the fastest but not bad for one off attempt. Has anybody tried sending adoption in a normal game yet? I was thinking if you aged up to the 3rd age with bison or food crates to help kickstart some vill production in more eco heavy games. It also works for fishijng boats which be used on malaysia/baja california. Although it would never happen in a game (just like 20 attack buffing teepees) sending adoption with 25 vills on fire pit lead to a villager or a fishing boat being trained about every 3.5 seconds. Could quickly convert 1000food/wood into eco if you dont want to continuously ship unit shipments
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

I_HaRRiiSoN_I wrote:I was just messing around with the new sioux adoption card '-40%' train time, managed to get 99 vils in 12 minutes on deccan, definitely not the fastest but not bad for one off attempt. Has anybody tried sending adoption in a normal game yet? I was thinking if you aged up to the 3rd age with bison or food crates to help kickstart some vill production in more eco heavy games. It also works for fishijng boats which be used on malaysia/baja california. Although it would never happen in a game (just like 20 attack buffing teepees) sending adoption with 25 vills on fire pit lead to a villager or a fishing boat being trained about every 3.5 seconds. Could quickly convert 1000food/wood into eco if you dont want to continuously ship unit shipments
I'd be surprised if Adoption were currently viable. I'd be even more surprised if Great Hunter weren't, though!

We'll see.
User avatar
France flontier
Lancer
Intermediate Division Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
ESO: Flontier
Clan: PLOP

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

  • Quote

Post by flontier »

5 vills back petition
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: LĆ¼beck

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Lukas_L99 »

I don't think sioux need them tbh
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

wbout RE sioux + 1 free bison with every shipment
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: LĆ¼beck

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Lukas_L99 »

I wouldnt say no to that but I think Sioux are pretty decent at the moment
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by chronique »

I think sioux is one of the worst civ at this moment, but i dont play vs them often.

Its realy hard to balance some civ becouse nobody use them. I mean, nobody play WC civ (regardless of good they are, iro are strong but not so much played).
User avatar
France flontier
Lancer
Intermediate Division Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
ESO: Flontier
Clan: PLOP

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by flontier »

Still think sioux no need 5 vills back :P ?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

chronique wrote:I think sioux is one of the worst civ at this moment, but i dont play vs them often.

Its realy hard to balance some civ becouse nobody use them. I mean, nobody play WC civ (regardless of good they are, iro are strong but not so much played).
Iro is one of the most played civs in tourney wtf ?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV