Sioux Discussion Thread

[Mimsy for President]

Ashigaru aren't better than normal musk without shipments or golden pavillon. Yeah true but tell me who is the retard in this game who doesn't send ashi ups ^^
And sepoys are op but they don't win games. What's that supposed to mean ? Because musks do ?

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you're going mass yumi+few ashi you won't send ashi up, same if you semi ff.

[Hazza54321]

If you're going mass yumi+few ashi you won't send ashi up, same if you semi ff.

yes but it doesnt take much to go to jap consulate and ship ashi att or daiymo, and if you age up then the golden pavillion is like plus 3/4 att

[deuxballesman]

Most of their units autoupgrade yeah, in particular wakinas and no other unit that you are going to produce.

Yes, AR and BR need to upgraded but since you don't need houses it's easier to use any spare wood or just chop the 200w needed. RR and dogs provide a buffer of time too.

I disagree. A civ isnt necessarily broken if they have one very strong unit and some very weak unit. Also, it can be the case that cetans got buffed but are still too weak to use, in which case the patch was just a nerf to sioux.

Sioux were broken in the sense that they had one abusable feature and nothing else. Now atleast they can go infantry a bit more.
Bear in mind that initial planned changes were much bigger for Sioux. At one point we even had a system for which tepees grant an economic boost and could be canceled to get a refund of 50% of their price. Just afterall, and for the moment atleast, the unit changes seem enough.

I'd really like to see the teepee eco boost for unit nearby Seems like a huge buff but why not. As for the Sioux changes even in RE I don't use BRs that much in a lot of match ups so the buff for cetan might be nice to hold rushes or try bow club every once in a while.

[iNcog]

The idea was that instead of market upgrades, sioux had teepees. a strange way of giving sioux steel traps more than anything else

[Jaeger]

The idea was that instead of market upgrades, sioux had teepees. a strange way of giving sioux steel traps more than anything else

That means each tepee is ~1% boost which is shit for their cost, and u dont wanna lower the cost and make them OP either

[Wuangaga]

Teepees are actually pretty useful for getting safer into age 3. I had some games already where building like 3-4 teepees in base when being pushed in early fortress helped a lot. You could take them as a compensation for minute men.

[deuxballesman]

The idea was that instead of market upgrades, sioux had teepees. a strange way of giving sioux steel traps more than anything else

That means each tepee is ~1% boost which is shit for their cost, and u dont wanna lower the cost and make them OP either

God I hope one teepee wasn't ~1% how often are you going to build 20 teepees near a hunt just to reach the ST level^^ something like 2.5-3% might be enough as you have to destroy them each time you go to another hunt and it will increase the hp of your vils which migth save them in case of a raid ! I actually really like the teepee idea

[Wuangaga]

The idea was that instead of market upgrades, sioux had teepees. a strange way of giving sioux steel traps more than anything else

That means each tepee is ~1% boost which is shit for their cost, and u dont wanna lower the cost and make them OP either

God I hope one teepee wasn't ~1% how often are you going to build 20 teepees near a hunt just to reach the ST level^^ something like 2.5-3% might be enough as you have to destroy them each time you go to another hunt and it will increase the hp of your vils which migth save them in case of a raid ! I actually really like the teepee idea

Teepee building limit is 10 by default btw.

[deuxballesman]

ah yes you need nomad expansion to make it 20!

[zoom]

RAISE YER TIIPIIS BOIS. GOODSPEED'S GOT YE COVERED!

[iNcog]

The idea was that instead of market upgrades, sioux had teepees. a strange way of giving sioux steel traps more than anything else

That means each tepee is ~1% boost which is shit for their cost, and u dont wanna lower the cost and make them OP either

These are the numbers we used:

- Give teepees a gather rate aura of 5% per teepee
- Make teepees salvageable (they get a tech to destroy themselves in 5 seconds time), refunding 50% of their cost

Whether or not 5% is too much is questionable, since teepees cost a set amount of wood and the refund is >only< 50%. The idea is that you make teepees at the places on the map where you're gathering resources: mines and hunts. When you're done with those natural resources, you salvage the teepees and move them somewhere else.

We ended up getting rid of it entirely since we didn't have the time or resources to sufficiently test what is obviously a pretty big change. We wanted to make sure that Sioux retains their uniqueness as a nomadic civilization and this was how we tried to give them an economic boost without being generic and boring.

[briowl]

Make the first two upgrades from the farm free. That way you get steel traps for 400w. Yes it's more expensive than ST, but it's 5% better and doesn't make a huge difference to the treaty game. It's also in keeping with the intentions of the original game designers, otherwise why would they make farm upgrades improve hunting. 400 wood is still a big investment, but you get the option of further hunting improvements, LOS and a cow pen.

[fei123456]

If you're going mass yumi+few ashi you won't send ashi up, same if you semi ff.

yumi is also op. they have 30+ attack in age 3 lol. they have two 20%attck buff and are even more op than ashi.

[[Armag] diarouga]

That's true if you age3. But that's not an easy thing.

[Marco1698]

What do you do as Sioux vs german? Semi doesn't work tbh. This is counterciv imo, German just sends cards and gg. German has a better score better mass of units... Wtf

[fei123456]

What do you do as Sioux vs german? Semi doesn't work tbh. This is counterciv imo, German just sends cards and gg. German has a better score better mass of units... Wtf

in re patch sioux just spam tons of bow riders and win. in fp it's harder but bow rider is still useful in this mu.
anyway german don't have goon.
german age2 xbow pike push is more difficult to defend. you can try axe rider cetan club combo and try to find a chance to age up.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ger>sioux
Just ff.

[fei123456]

Ger>sioux
Just ff.

some player said that german should age 2 dopple+xbow vs sioux
i dont agree but i dont know how to debate with him

[Marco1698]

Ff doesn't win. German too op. Are there any good recs about this MU where Sioux wins vs german semi?

[n0el]

I want to play that Sioux teepee boost style so badly

[Magnam]

Just an idea but u could probably add a possibility to switch between eco aura and attack aura after u send the card that teepes have an attack aura. Ofc this switch should take like 30sec or more. Would promote some interesting gameplay possibilities imo

[Marco1698]

I am testing 4v 700g but not sure it works. On maps without tp idk what to do and why should I send 700w? 4v 700g are fine, then I age up and send 3age cards. The problem is I can't find a good rec where Sioux wins. There was one (where blackstar won with German vs goongoon's Sioux) but it shows how hard is for Sioux

[fei123456]

I am testing 4v 700g but not sure it works. On maps without tp idk what to do and why should I send 700w? 4v 700g are fine, then I age up and send 3age cards. The problem is I can't find a good rec where Sioux wins. There was one (where blackstar won with German vs goongoon's Sioux) but it shows how hard is for Sioux

if it's no tp map german will suffer imo. german may play age 2 (xbow pike) on no tp maps and sioux should train infantry. if german still semi, sioux semi too and win. you can try the market big button (new year, 500f/w/g for 2000xp). send 700w during transition for this and you will send carrrrrrrrrds continuously in age 3.

[Wuangaga]

I am testing 4v 700g but not sure it works. On maps without tp idk what to do and why should I send 700w? 4v 700g are fine, then I age up and send 3age cards. The problem is I can't find a good rec where Sioux wins. There was one (where blackstar won with German vs goongoon's Sioux) but it shows how hard is for Sioux

You can use the 700w for warhut, BR upgrades and AR upgrades, but that's not really nessescary since you can gather that in transition and AR upgrade is rather meh, since you're not making them in fortress in most cases. I'd actually go colonial on no tp maps if the enemy civ isn't like France or Brits, since Cetan are quite decent units now.