Sioux Discussion Thread

France Kaiserklein
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

It's like a broken record tbh
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:
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Your post shows an incredibly naive understanding of statistics. In a game that uses randomized matchmaking exclusively, winrates will always be relatively consistent across the entire playerbase because of how matchmaking moderates the players who are matched against each other. If civ X suddenly gets a nerf, an X player who had ~1800 elo before the nerf with a ~50% winrate becomes an X player with ~1750 elo and a ~50% winrate. Automated, rating-based matchmaking means almost the entire playerbase will always have the same winrate, almost completely regardless of balance. Using winrates across a playerbase with automated matchmaking as evidence makes literally no sense. In AoE3, we're dealing with the unfortunate (in my opinion) situation of the absence of randomized matchmaking. The only way to actually find games on EP is to host a lobby and pick a civilization, map, and most importantly, opponent. For this reason it's useless to even start arguing about winrates on EP as they don't tell even the smallest part of the story.
I would like to z some stastistics anyway, on EP. I kind of loath this saying that Sioux suddenly got so OP. It is not true, in my experience
anyway. Maybe you can prove me wrong?
I just explained to you why statistics prove nothing and you respond by demanding statistics?
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United States of America Cometk
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Cometk »

it's less that sioux are overpowered and more that they're just broken

nobody enjoys playing against their 1 playstyle
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Australia Kawapasaka
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

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Post by Kawapasaka »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I would like to z some stastistics anyway, on EP. I kind of loath this saying that Sioux suddenly got so OP. It is not true, in my experience
anyway. Maybe you can prove me wrong?
I just explained to you why statistics prove nothing and you respond by demanding statistics?
Do you have any statistics to back that up?
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Germany Lukas_L99
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Cometk wrote:it's less that sioux are overpowered and more that they're just broken

nobody enjoys playing against their 1 playstyle
There are more than 1 playstyle though, the BR into BB style is just the most common, doesnt mean its the best style in every case.
But yeah, playing vs sioux is kinda annoying and theyre above average for sure. Top civ if no one is walling I guess.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

you boys should just deal with it. Sioux is annoying for your boom, that's all. If you want to make them compatible, this patch as it is now is a 40/60 win for Sioux (Sioux in the 40). If you want to make them a not playable civ, as they have been in the last few years - go ahead, and make the gameplay EU only. Do not count me in for supporting that though.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

I want to cry
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

:cry: :cry:
boohoo
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by n0el »

Sioux needs a change @spanky4ever not a nerf. The civ used to be fun and active, which made it great. Now itā€™s a turtle civ, which is boring.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

n0el wrote:Sioux needs a change @spanky4ever not a nerf. The civ used to be fun and active, which made it great. Now itā€™s a turtle civ, which is boring.
while I do not agree with that, because this it the only time Sioux can actually play defensive (like every other civ in the game) I would listen to any advice you might have.
Let me just ask you this, why should Sioux not be able to defend?
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

should prolly un nerf br then ;)
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by n0el »

They should be able to defend, but right now there is no incentive to do anything but sit in their base, which I hope you would agree is boring.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

n0el wrote:They should be able to defend, but right now there is no incentive to do anything but sit in their base, which I hope you would agree is boring.
pretty much like every other civs out there ;) Still not true, I think? CAn Sioux just sit in their base, boom, and be compatible? I have not seen that yet. But for sure, you could be right, it's just that it has never been played on EP. I mean Sioux hero can get the stealth ability in age 4, and the killing of cannons ez at the warpit, at age 3, but can it be too late? I will ask some OP Sioux players to prove it @Kaiserklein ore whoever can make the challenge. @Goodspeed maybe do it, I have seen it before ;)
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

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Post by Cometk »

their in-base teepees grant them the eco lead but you can't push vs their tc because those teepees also boost their military's hp 1.5x. you can't starve them because they can age with/ship 15 bisons. by the time they've ran out of coin they will have the mass to push their tech advantage and break out of their base

that's what it feels like to play against sioux
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France Kaiserklein
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiserklein »

Plus that part where you get absolutely shat on in age 1 in every single game. And they never can be forced to take a bad fight either.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Kawapasaka »

Yeah I played a very frustrating game vs Sioux yesterday that highlighted all of these pain points. Opponent did some age 2 stuff to take down my TP and get stagecoach, but I stayed age 2 longer, got a good musk/huss mass, cleaned up his army, nuked his FB, took all the TPs back and was in a pretty decent position. At least it would be against any other civ. Then it became apparent he was aging, and I was about to have 50 completely useless units vs age 3 Sioux. But what can I do to trade them off before they become free kills for Rifle Riders and Wakinas? I can't catch his army because it's too fast, I can't pressure his res because he's still in base with his age-up Bison, I can't push his base because Teepees and the fact that he can pressure my hunts then easily be back in time to defend anyway.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

There is so many ways to play Sioux. should be more exploring bois n girls.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

n0el wrote:@Mr_Bramboy i agree, and i think if we played on the same patch for a couple more years, it would shift again, especially if the maps change.

as for the sioux change, i would rather leave the teepee aura the same for eco, and nerf it for HP and nerf their hitpoints as well.
Wouldn't that make out-of-base Teepees even less viable, and a turtling Sioux player insignificantly less proof (the HP effect would be smaller, but probably render the Sioux base still impenetrable), thus diminishing the intended purpose of the Teepee while incentivizing turtling even moreā€”the opposite effect of the current EP7 changes?

I brought up reverting the Teepee HP buff, long ago. Apparently, it was the case that 300HP Teepees are too susceptible to sieging in the early game. Still, we could try a partial revert, if players want to.

Whatever the case, I shall poll nerfing the Dog Soldier Big Button. The civilization's over-reliance on it seems undesirable.

How would you nerf it, in case it were to be done?
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

iwillspankyou wrote:There is so many ways to play Sioux. should be more exploring bois n girls.
The coming changes should certainly help players with that. Between feedback and results, it seems unlikely that the civilization is weak, though.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Why not a full revert. Its just a terrible design change that turns sioux from a nomad somewhat aggressive civ into a camp fest til 15mins. Why should a 50w building buff eco and military both at the same time whilst the aura stacks. India have a special wonder for said aura which no other civ has for diversity. Nowadays sioux doesnt raid/need to raid. Like when was the last time you saw umeu or lukas go for a raid with sioux despite having 10 speed cav.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

Why not give Sioux steel traps and remove eco TPS and the bonus hunting from the age up?
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

Another option would be to change the civ even further by turning it into a boom civ - make teepees more expensive.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by harcha »

Or remove the eco area and add xp trickle
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by kaister »

try holding a Sepoy rush without 2/3 teepees, and even if you can see how far down in eco you are. Honestly just limit it to 6 teepees or limit how many stack or so and Sioux isn't just a camp and chill for 16 mins civ
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Re: Sioux Discussion Thread

Post by n0el »

Just remove the unit effects and make it an eco only option. Nerfs the camp, allows Sioux to compete with other civs eco wise and allows them to wall somewhat to defend.
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