Portuguese Discussion Thread

[knusch]

i'd like to see port reverted back to re

lets make it happen, boys xD

[pecelot]

idk, I'd be inclined to agree with Garja about defensive capabilities of Ports, but in comparison with, for instance, the Dutch, they rely on natural resources much more

also I fail to see how France straight up beats Ports, not to mention the former allegedly out-scale the latter — would anyone be willing to elaborate on that?

[Hazza54321]

Skirms > cass cuirs> huss and the goons are the same and thats before frances 3 upgrades. Also 2 falcs > 2 organs, ports have no cav shipment except mams which take time and investment so france can happily push with a huge skirm mass, and tc fire isnt exactly efficient vs that. France also have a better eco for the first 15 mins and should outgather for the majority of the game beyond that if played right. Ports also need to be afraid of pushing because frances cav switch is just better.

[Sargsyan]

What about 3 tc colonial militia, mm and increased tc fire, isnt that scary with 5 snaring mams ?

[Garja]

Skirms > cass cuirs> huss and the goons are the same and thats before frances 3 upgrades. Also 2 falcs > 2 organs, ports have no cav shipment except mams which take time and investment so france can happily push with a huge skirm mass, and tc fire isnt exactly efficient vs that. France also have a better eco for the first 15 mins and should outgather for the majority of the game beyond that if played right. Ports also need to be afraid of pushing because frances cav switch is just better.

Cass are cheaper and train faster. If it gets to a skirm war Port are fine since it also buys time. Cuirs are generally a waste of resources until cav combat. At that point Port will also have cav combat and their dragoons are slightly better (20% vs 15%). Falcs are the only advantage Fre gets in early fortress but slow rolling with those also gives Ports time.
In all of this the constant is that Ports eventually outscale so as Fre need to do enough damage to either win the game or create buffer for 1k wood and 2-3TCs.

[Kaiserklein]

Skirms > cass cuirs> huss and the goons are the same and thats before frances 3 upgrades. Also 2 falcs > 2 organs, ports have no cav shipment except mams which take time and investment so france can happily push with a huge skirm mass, and tc fire isnt exactly efficient vs that. France also have a better eco for the first 15 mins and should outgather for the majority of the game beyond that if played right. Ports also need to be afraid of pushing because frances cav switch is just better.

Might want to take into account that ports get a free tc with each age and pay 85f for their vils

[Ashvin]

What about 3 tc colonial militia, mm and increased tc fire, isnt that scary with 5 snaring mams ?

For 3 tc fire they have to sacrifice a tons VS by not letting vills gather. And also it will be unlikely that these 3 TCs will be very close to each other, even if that happens fre can have map control. If that doesn't happen and the TCs are far apart from each other then there is no problem at all.

[pecelot]

sacrificing some vills by having them idle in TCs is OK if behind that you have, let's say, a water eco
and then it's assuming you don't have any units and have to rely purely on TC fire and minutemen

[yemshi]

10v TC is worth the res lost anyway.

[[Armag] diarouga]

That's mostly because Port units are trash.
Cassadors have a good RR and as a result less HP, so they get molested by cuirs, after what you're left with goons vs skirms and you just lose the game.

The Fre player should musk semi to control the map (maybe even kill a TP), and then keep the map control without commiting (some players like mankle even like to send 1000w and build a TC, but that's not worth imo).
At one point the Port player will have to push out to get more food (that's usually when he starts to match your eco which means that he'll have less units), and will lose because he can't deal with the falcs without losing all his goons.

From experience (I've played this MU as Port vs kaiser in the past and as France vs blackstar), even if the Port player manages to make a miracle happen and kills the falcs without losing too much, he loses a few min later when France sends cav combat and rapes everything with his cuirs, although he has 20 less vills and less unit population.

[Hazza54321]

Cass are basically twice expensive strelets with 20 range, just pretty shitty unit, nilla cass pls

[Garja]

20 range, 4.5 speed and 50% rr.
They are way cheaper than skirms and trade about even with them. They also kite significantly better.

[Hazza54321]

training cass are just deleting res, its like saying ruskets are cost effective. who cares they just die

[gamevideo113]

Cassa are not a great unit, and that's a fact. Anyway the vill discount could be staggered through the ages if ports turn out to be actually too strong (-95 discov, -90 colo, -85 fort. -80 ind). Though so far i don't think enough evidence has been provided to justify a nerf. An alternative change to the vill discount was discussed several times, but often dismissed by the majority of the players. As far as i am aware ports weren't changed since then.

[Garja]

training cass are just deleting res, its like saying ruskets are cost effective. who cares they just die

this is bs

[Garja]

In fact I'd argue that if it wasn't for the food/gold cost ratio I'd prefer having cassas over regular skirms any day as Ports.
It just fits better the civ design to have a cheaper more agile skirms unit for midgame and that can be upped once in age4.

[knusch]

In fact I'd argue that if it wasn't for the food/gold cost ratio I'd prefer having cassas over regular skirms any day as Ports.
It just fits better the civ design to have a cheaper more agile skirms unit for midgame and that can be upped once in age4.

the 3 inf upgrade cards should've been moved to age 2/3 when changing ports in the first place
literally nobody uses them...for a reason

ps: cassadors suck xD

[lordraphael]

In fact I'd argue that if it wasn't for the food/gold cost ratio I'd prefer having cassas over regular skirms any day as Ports.
It just fits better the civ design to have a cheaper more agile skirms unit for midgame and that can be upped once in age4.

the 3 inf upgrade cards should've been moved to age 2/3 when changing ports in the first place
literally nobody uses them...for a reason

ps: cassadors suck xD

that would make them very OP, really the only reason why port age 2 is not viable is casue they have no ups.

[Garja]

The reason is because sometimes it's hard to fit all the needed cards in the deck. Anyway Port age4 cards should be 2 facts, genitours, 2HC and infantry combat. It works for musks too so it's a good card.
And ye, give Ports inf cards in colo and with 85f vills they would be like Brits, or literally like Dutch in age3.
Without 85f it could be tested but it's against the civ design.

[Kaiserklein]

I think moving all ups to fort would be good. Having musks upgrades in colo would probably be too game changing, but if you had 3 inf cards in fortress (like azzy with their 3 knight cards) I think it would be fine. Provided that we also revert the vil discount ofc.

[Hazza54321]

i really dont know because in a way it makes ports another skirm goon civ

[Kaiserklein]

Lol ports is just the biggest skirm goon civ already...

[Hazza54321]

I think you should play them goon huss art

[Kaiserklein]

good luck with that

[Garja]

Moving the inf card to fortress means in the first place that you can't fit all of them.
In the second place it reduces the incentives to go industrial which is very likely the intended way to play the civ.
And third I'm not sure that balance would be ok without vill discount and inf ups. Ports kinda need some sort of tangible early fortress boost, so stuff like discounted Cassas cost make more sense to me. When they can already spam they can usually go organs instead of cassas, and mass cassas do already fine in big skirm goon battles.