Ottomans Discussion Thread

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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

Am I the only one who thinks otto should be nerfed to the ground on the next patch version? They are ridiculously easy to play, the mosque techs and abus buff (4,5 ROF isn't really a nerf when you can kite with your insane range and shooting animation) were imo very unnecessary and otto seems to be super hard to beat on almost every single matchup.

I suggest taking abus range away, for starters, then seeing where otto stands.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Yea, I hope abus range will be moved to industrial.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Cometk »

otto ranked 8 in the most recent balance poll and we want to nerf it into the ground?
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

I think abus vs cannons and boats is just unfair and sort of eliminates their only weakness when massed with jans that's my only qualm.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Cometk »

abus are impossible to mass anyway unless you have control of the trade line
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

Cometk wrote:abus are impossible to mass anyway unless you have control of the trade line

Yes but taking control of the to line is easier for Otto to do than other civs, TPS being so strong is the problem overall imo.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by bwinner »

Cometk wrote:otto ranked 8 in the most recent balance poll and we want to nerf it into the ground?

my bad, it's just all the people who got bottoed who are complainning now :ohmy:
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

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Post by tedere12 »

Cometk wrote:abus are impossible to mass anyway unless you have control of the trade line

just no
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Cometk »

tedere12 wrote:
Cometk wrote:abus are impossible to mass anyway unless you have control of the trade line

just no

try massing abus vs dutch in age 3 lol. yeah, the extra range is really gonna help you there
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

tedere12 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks otto should be nerfed to the ground on the next patch version? They are ridiculously easy to play, the mosque techs and abus buff (4,5 ROF isn't really a nerf when you can kite with your insane range and shooting animation) were imo very unnecessary and otto seems to be super hard to beat on almost every single matchup.

I suggest taking abus range away, for starters, then seeing where otto stands.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Cometk »

where are these age 3 abus-based strats that are just tearing up the ladder/tournies? i must really be missing something here
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Cometk wrote:where are these age 3 abus-based strats that are just tearing up the ladder/tournies? i must really be missing something here

rouga vs Soldier NE, bwinner vs rouga baja.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by look »

put otto to produce vills manually, decrease production time by 5%, and then we will have a little more mechanics for this civ, with a simple change
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Cometk wrote:where are these age 3 abus-based strats that are just tearing up the ladder/tournies? i must really be missing something here
Clearly, you haven't been watching bwinneur.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

The thing is that veteran abus never comes early. You don't use it when you FF and you don't use it when you go for colonial jan-abus. Most of the time you get veteran abus, your opponent is obviously making goon heavy comp and abus don't even do too great versus them. 20 range is fine.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by bwinner »

zoom wrote:
Cometk wrote:where are these age 3 abus-based strats that are just tearing up the ladder/tournies? i must really be missing something here
Clearly, you haven't been watching bwinneur.

well indeed I am the only one using it sometimes and I am 100% sure that the games I win with it are either cuz they are over already befor I make abus or because the opponent misses his window when I do the switch.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

20 range for abus is more of a design flaw than really a balance issue. Still it is a latent balance issue.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by VooDoo_BoSs »

Garja wrote:20 range for abus is more of a design flaw than really a balance issue. Still it is a latent balance issue.


Perhaps, but at close range they lose to most high-damage units unless you have a clear numerical parity or superiority (even sepoy / musk etc.)

Given otto's poor eco, otto units will almost always be outnumbered and they need to remain OP else otto will very quickly go to being a bottom civ.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

VooDoo_BoSs wrote:
Garja wrote:20 range for abus is more of a design flaw than really a balance issue. Still it is a latent balance issue.


Perhaps, but at close range they lose to most high-damage units unless you have a clear numerical parity or superiority (even sepoy / musk etc.)

Given otto's poor eco, otto units will almost always be outnumbered and they need to remain OP else otto will very quickly go to being a bottom civ.


^^this

In a lategame situation, otto literally is completely incapable of dealing with say, 150 ruyters, 91 eagle runners, and going trade poorly vs 50 russian cav archers. 20 range seems an appropriate measure to help out a little. To be completely blunt, grens do better vs 150 ruyters than abus do. This is a balance issue in many respects for the civ and doesnt have an easy answer as to how it should be balanced.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by juhjuh »

Whay shouldn't Otto have a bad late game? They are really fast in the early game. Also the idea was just to move it to age 4.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by Papist »

juhjuh wrote:Whay shouldn't Otto have a bad late game? They are really fast in the early game. Also the idea was just to move it to age 4.


Moving it to age 4 is essentially the same and removing it because 99% of games never reach age 4.
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Re: Ottoman Discussion Thread

Post by juhjuh »

We were speaking about late game lol
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

Spahi rr to 30% is a bit too much, 20% is fine.
Jan combat is okay at 20% , given the fact that Jan hp has been nerfed too much and they are already not good against cav as other musk type units.
No need to buff GB up.
Please address the advanced church card Jans after they have been nerfed. It need a buff in cost or unit numbers or unit tech.
Otto should have an infinite spahi shipment in age IV or trainable in stable. It is really frustrating to not use Otto special units except for a few shipment.
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Otto is stupidly overated
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Re: Ottomans Discussion Thread

Post by aqwer »

Hazza54321 wrote:Otto is stupidly overated


Agree but why?
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