Ottomans Discussion Thread

[Astaroth]

Pretty sure China, Japan (<- not sure about this one, maybe Kaiser is just bad ), and maybe Iro, can beat Otto on high TP maps as well, but most Euro civs will struggle pretty hard in this situation vs Otto, yeah.

Pretty sure most euro civ can totally beat otto even on heavy TP maps. On EP they could even beat RE otto.

I'm not sure if this is true at all. There are many civs which really struggle vs Otto - mainly Brit / Dutch / Port. The only euro civ which IMO can consistently beat otto is maybe Germany or Spain.

How does Otto beat Russia?

If you go age2, you just die. Early abus can't compete against 9 costs and strel, later you can't get a big mass because Russia overwhelms you before. If you go Jan huss, Russia goes musks and camps at the blockhouse and still wins.

If you FF, you get belled a lot. You can only get out like 13 Jans (8 from shipment). Those can't protect the 2 falcs, even if he has to sac all of his coss. Mams are nice, but won't be out fast and still lose to mass musk coss.

[zoom]

@zoom

Kuwait!

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

Pretty sure China, Japan (<- not sure about this one, maybe Kaiser is just bad ), and maybe Iro, can beat Otto on high TP maps as well, but most Euro civs will struggle pretty hard in this situation vs Otto, yeah.

Pretty sure most euro civ can totally beat otto even on heavy TP maps. On EP they could even beat RE otto.

I'm not sure if this is true at all. There are many civs which really struggle vs Otto - mainly Brit / Dutch / Port. The only euro civ which IMO can consistently beat otto is maybe Germany or Spain.

How does Otto beat Russia?

If you go age2, you just die. Early abus can't compete against 9 costs and strel, later you can't get a big mass because Russia overwhelms you before. If you go Jan huss, Russia goes musks and camps at the blockhouse and still wins.

If you FF, you get belled a lot. You can only get out like 13 Jans (8 from shipment). Those can't protect the 2 falcs, even if he has to sac all of his coss. Mams are nice, but won't be out fast and still lose to mass musk coss.

FF actually wins quite easily. He's going to lose his cossacks to iddle you, and you'll have mm/4huss/13jans to defend your falcs and then Russia can't really deal with the mams.

[Astaroth]

Do you have a link to games where that happened between good players?

I feel like an aggressive Russia with good micro should be able to trade most of his army against 2 falcs, 8 Jans etc. Otto doesn't have enough anticav when the 2 falcs arrive. Then Otto is left with nothing and no res to send mams. They have to go 1k gold, then Mams. By the time these 2 shipments arrive, Russia should have another couple batches of musks and coss. Note that Otto now has like no eco, maybe 10 Jans, no falcs and 4 mams. Russia can now mass in their base, otto has to push in and can't win easily against Russia's army. Even if Otto barely wins the fight, they can't siege down the TC, BH etc without Russia remassing.

Obviously Russia loses hard if they let Otto get 2 falcs, 20 vet jans and mams at the same time, but that should never happen.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Idk, ask botto.

[Kaiserklein]

Russia is known to be shit vs otto. Feels like russia can't punish in base tower ff with colo play, so they kind of have to go age 3 themselves, which they're really bad at doing.

Then there's even the threat of industrial if russia goes fort.

[Hazza54321]

kinda shit MU for russ.

[Hazza54321]

just look at my game vs bloser on my oldest past broadcast

[zoom]

Yeah, that one is rough on RE, for sure. Abuse–Huss for days...

[bwinner]

Yes, just ff with tower in base. Then if russia tries to play age 2 (so to be aggressiv generally), just defend and do classic stuff (use jan, falcs and mams to kill everything). If you see russia wants to age up (that's pretty obvious generally : no fb bh, TP...), you can go straight age 4 and revo, this plan works almost always for me. I lost that game to hazza cuz he multitasked me hard and I answered very poorly but technicly I had a huge advantage, so you can considere the plan worked.
Note that jan/abus can probably work as well but there is no reason to not follow the previous plan since it works 100%

[VooDoo_BoSs]

just look at my game vs bloser on my oldest past broadcast

Link? Can't seem to find it :(

[Hazza54321]

just look at my game vs bloser on my oldest past broadcast

Link? Can't seem to find it :(

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/454243672

there my good sir

[VooDoo_BoSs]

just look at my game vs bloser on my oldest past broadcast

Link? Can't seem to find it :(

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/454243672

there my good sir

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

[VooDoo_BoSs]

just look at my game vs bloser on my oldest past broadcast

Link? Can't seem to find it :(

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/454243672

there my good sir

What a ridiculous game. Chasing 5 musk all over map with large horde of Jans - building a dozen stables and only make 5 huss... the fact that bwinner lasted as long as he did goes to show this is a fairly otto-centric MU.

[juhjuh]

Otto is easily the easiest civ to Play, so it shouldent be good, everything else is not fair, for the People playing Japan for example.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Otto is easily the easiest civ to Play, so it shouldent be good, everything else is not fair, for the People playing Japan for example.

Yep.

[Kaiserklein]

Might as well remove otto from the game if you want to make it underpowered. This is stupid.

[juhjuh]

jea you are right like i said we should remove Otto from the game @zoom

[zoom]

I miss bwinner!
: (

[bwinner]

I stopped answering to stupide stuff

[zoom]

I'm glad! It took you long enough, my friend!

[Hazza54321]

Otto is just one of those civs that disrupts the nr15 meta so it should be removed.

[juhjuh]

so we are 3 already

[amiggo1999]

Otto is fine, just replace abus with cetan bows

[pingiu]

Otto gets better as the Players get worse so even though Otto is prob only bit over avrage (idk) at top Level its different when you are captain. lets say tow captains are playing against each other, the first one Plays Japan while the second one Plays only Otto and they both win 50% of there games against each other. I think this mu is considered even Right? In this case both Players should be of the same skill Level. I am breety sure this isent the case and that this mu is just considered even on Top Level becouse Otto has les potential then Japan. Ottos bos are easy, otto macro is easy, otto micro is (not always) easy but also otto almost never has to react witch means they need less game Knowledge.