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Argentina Riotcoke
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29 Jul 2019, 14:33

I think iro is in a good spot now, if they're going to rush you it's painfully obvious due to the messenger, same for if they're going for fortress.
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Kiribati SirCallen
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29 Jul 2019, 17:00

I think it's unfair this civ has a weakness to artillery in age 3. If we give FP x10 vs art iro could be in a good spot. If we make sure no civs have any weaknesses, then the game is balanced!
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Canada dansil92
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29 Jul 2019, 17:33

Nah just gotta get creative, musket riders and kanya both have large bonus vs arty and mantlets can tank 2 full falc shots each so just gotta play smart ;-)
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29 Jul 2019, 17:36

Djigit wrote:I don't understand why iro still has a wood starting crate
It must be eliminated!
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Canada dansil92
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29 Jul 2019, 17:38

Djigit wrote:I don't understand why iro still has a wood starting crate


Whats the point of the travois if you're gonna force the longhouse start?
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No Flag Djigit
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29 Jul 2019, 17:48

dansil92 wrote:
Djigit wrote:I don't understand why iro still has a wood starting crate


Whats the point of the travois if you're gonna force the longhouse start?
Because with a wood treasure, EP becomes RE.
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Italy gamevideo113
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29 Jul 2019, 22:53

Balancing can't really take into account treasures though...
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Argentina Riotcoke
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29 Jul 2019, 22:55

Djigit wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
Djigit wrote:I don't understand why iro still has a wood starting crate


Whats the point of the travois if you're gonna force the longhouse start?
Because with a wood treasure, EP becomes RE.

No it doesn't your age up is always slower if you go for the tp, also you have to remember that on RE you can start with three hundred wood and get two tps with a treasure.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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29 Jul 2019, 22:56

Your age up isn't slower, no. In fact, it's faster half of the time because you can age 14 instead of 15.
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Argentina Riotcoke
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29 Jul 2019, 23:02

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Your age up isn't slower, no. In fact, it's faster half of the time because you can age 14 instead of 15.

I meant as in if you have to chop wood after a 40 wood tres.
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Italy gamevideo113
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20 Aug 2019, 08:34

Has anyone found a use for the 200f 100w 100c shipment yet?
I have tried different builds with it but it seems simply worse than all of the alternatives. For example it is possible to 10/10 with it with no TC idle time but then the follow up will always be poor because your eco is just terrible. The only benefit i could find is that you can rush with 7-8 kanya at 4:40 and still have the fast age politician for the fortress age, but again, your eco will struggle a lot with getting the resources to age.
Even on water maps 3v 3fishing boats is probably a better alternative if you want to prolong discovery a little bit or if you simply want to use your travois for a dock and chop for the house.
Maybe with a gold start you could chop for the market, wait until the shipment comes (which, if you use your travois to build a farm, will be at 9/10 pop), at which point you’ll have 100w 200g and sell coin so you can get both a house and hunting dogs, and also a small 200f boost to avoid aging up too late.
On wood starts you should just chop for the tp and go with 3v i think. Maybe TP+farm and 12/10? Not sure where that leads you, I don’t think it’s worth it.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Aug 2019, 09:33

3v is much better.
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20 Aug 2019, 13:03

Tested it again, it just sucks
As i already mentioned i would revert the change
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20 Aug 2019, 13:14

Obviously the shipment isn't great, 3v is better, but maybe use it for some all in no eco rush with fast age up? But it's probably not worth it, seeing that iro has like no use for the 100c.

Idk, could try to sell it or get hunting dogs, but then it isn't no eco and 3v is better anyway.
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20 Aug 2019, 13:29

If you 10/10 sending crates and age fast you won't have a shipment when you get to colonial, which is really bad.
If you 10/10 sending crates and age with wise woman you'll be able to have like 7 kanya at 4:30, or maybe 4 kanya and 5 toma at the same time, but you can basically still do the same thing if you simply go 3v and age fast when you have 15 vils (standard). You'll also have a way better eco to back the rush up. If you rush you're not semi-ffing anyway, so you don't really need to use the wise woman for age2 at all costs.

TL,DR: For a rush always use the messenger.
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20 Aug 2019, 13:49

Can you do the fast 10/10 with a TP? Because then you could follow up the 7kanyas with 5v, allowing for some eco recovery and messenger to Age3 for a (fast) semi FF?

Or maybe not make military units at all, make them think you are only rushing due to the fast up time, but then just go 4 kanya 5vill 600res and messenger Age3?

As in, 400 res shipment age1, get a TP (or 2 TPs?) up 10/10 with wise woman, use travois for forward WH, send 4 kanya and confuse him (now maybe also go 5 toma or don't do it), 5 vills, 600 res, up with messenger.

Still, probably better to go standard.
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20 Aug 2019, 14:40

I have tried 4k kanya 5 vils 600g but your eco is just too bad to afford the fortress age, any follow up from the 7 kanyas rush will just be too slow. You also will hardly afford a TP in transition, and if you do you won't be able to get kanyas out of the stable. I guess one thing i haven't tried is dancing with vills at the firepit for xp instead of going for the TP, sounds bad, probably is even worse in practice haha xD
Btw i don't think mind games can work very consistently, most of the times your opponent will be able to scout and adapt.

The thing is, 3 vills is a superior shipment in every way, therefore that should always be your first shipment. If you wanted to prolong discovery and then still be up in time by using the messenger i don't think 3v 400 res is better than just going 15v up and wise woman and then just ship an age2 card. On the contrary, i think it is worse. It only makes sense to stay in discovery until 4 minutes if you're on a water map imo, because there you can actually boom up to 23-24 pop and then age.
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21 Aug 2019, 10:47

New ways could also enable socket bayonet and trunion in the longhouses.
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21 Aug 2019, 12:04

Does anyone ever go for an Iro FI? Granted, Iro don't have the very best age4 shipments relative to their Age3 shipments and other civs, but they do get light cannons, which are pretty good. It's probably too risky, because if you can get away with an FF, your Age3 is already really strong/better than most other civs and later on you risk getting outboomed.
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21 Aug 2019, 12:59

I don't think iro FI is viable, because unlike e.g. dutch you can't really boom well while you turtle and even once you get to age 4 you can send 4 cannons 16 toma and 1800res and that's basically it.
On the other hand i think that going IV with iro is a good idea in other situations because light cannons can provide a lot of pressure and twc civs have cheaper, more affordable industrial upgrades, compared to euro civs (with 1200 res you can upgrade both toma and fp, while euro civs can only afford one non-royal guard upgrade with the same resources)
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France Kaiserklein
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21 Aug 2019, 16:00

Iro FI is a thing yeah. Or usually, semi FI. I don't think there are match ups where you'd decide to go for FI directly when the game starts, but after some colonial and/or fortress pressure, going age 4 for toma + light cannon is a good answer to turtle or water play.

gamevideo113 wrote:New ways could also enable socket bayonet and trunion in the longhouses.

The only native "musket" is the tomahawk. I think it'd be kinda weird to add a bayonet on top of a tomahawk :hmm:
Purely in terms of gameplay, I don't think it's needed because tomahawks in melee shit on cav already, and it's a very niche upgrade anyway.
Trunion is the cannon speed? I guess you can add that
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Russia yurashic
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21 Aug 2019, 16:26

gamevideo113 wrote:I don't think iro FI is viable, because unlike e.g. dutch you can't really boom well while you turtle and even once you get to age 4 you can send 4 cannons 16 toma and 1800res and that's basically it.
On the other hand i think that going IV with iro is a good idea in other situations because light cannons can provide a lot of pressure and twc civs have cheaper, more affordable industrial upgrades, compared to euro civs (with 1200 res you can upgrade both toma and fp, while euro civs can only afford one non-royal guard upgrade with the same resources)


There is the 10 vills age up that is very good and yeah cheaper guard upgrades and cannons are good.
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Argentina Riotcoke
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21 Aug 2019, 16:27

Does FI work vs japan or is it too slow?
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21 Aug 2019, 17:03

@Kaiserklein Yea trunion is cannon speed. Alternatively there is also cannon hp or cannon line of sight, if speed is too strong.

@Riotcoke I think by the time you are in industrial and ready to push, japan will have a very significant eco lead and will afford to take bad trades until your FI runs out of steam. Maybe a semi FI, yeah.
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22 Aug 2019, 08:21

@EAGLEMUT Would it be possible to change the industrial age shipment "500 of each resources" from 15 friggin 100 res crates to 3x500 res crates? The clumping under the tc is real whenever i send that mess :cry: :salt: :salt:
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