Spanish Discussion Thread
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
nilla spain please at least, theyre kinda shit atm
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Current Spain is close to nilla Spain.
With that said, shipment multiplier and rods attack would have been better changes than spanish gold and cheaper missionaries.
With that said, shipment multiplier and rods attack would have been better changes than spanish gold and cheaper missionaries.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
nilla spain would mean u could at least have the option for 5vill on non tp which they desperately need, although i do like rod att too
-
- Retired Contributor
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Feb 11, 2015
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Spain are fine.
How do I know?
Becuase they will win the mono-civ tourny beating the other 13 civs!
How do I know?
Becuase they will win the mono-civ tourny beating the other 13 civs!
Download ESOC Taunt Package : http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7250
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I don't think it's a bad thing that Spain needs to abuse its tempo advantage a little bit. From time to time Spain can feel a little extreme though, although one could argue that it's not that problematic that there is a very extreme civ in the game.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
momuuu wrote:I don't think it's a bad thing that Spain needs to abuse its tempo advantage a little bit. From time to time Spain can feel a little extreme though, although one could argue that it's not that problematic that there is a very extreme civ in the game.
i agree it needs to abuse tempo advantage, but you can only get so much done with falcs and then its just melee shipments and training 5 skirm at a time
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Hazza54321 wrote:momuuu wrote:I don't think it's a bad thing that Spain needs to abuse its tempo advantage a little bit. From time to time Spain can feel a little extreme though, although one could argue that it's not that problematic that there is a very extreme civ in the game.
i agree it needs to abuse tempo advantage, but you can only get so much done with falcs and then its just melee shipments and training 5 skirm at a time
Yea, but then the question is how much damage did you do? If you forced the other player to skip almost all eco stuff and still lose a bunch of stuff, then melee shipments (tbh, Rods and Lancers are pretty solid units) plus skirmishers seems fine, doesn't it.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
momuuu wrote:Hazza54321 wrote:momuuu wrote:I don't think it's a bad thing that Spain needs to abuse its tempo advantage a little bit. From time to time Spain can feel a little extreme though, although one could argue that it's not that problematic that there is a very extreme civ in the game.
i agree it needs to abuse tempo advantage, but you can only get so much done with falcs and then its just melee shipments and training 5 skirm at a time
Yea, but then the question is how much damage did you do? If you forced the other player to skip almost all eco stuff and still lose a bunch of stuff, then melee shipments (tbh, Rods and Lancers are pretty solid units) plus skirmishers seems fine, doesn't it.
thats the thing, they shouldnt lose much
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
So you think Spain is underpowered?
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Hazza54321 wrote:theyre kinda shit atm
Are they?
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Hazza54321 wrote:nilla spain would mean u could at least have the option for 5vill on non tp which they desperately need, although i do like rod att too
From my experience, you couldn't do that.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
with the Exiled Prince nerf potentially coming, I think they should do alright really
-
- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
In my opinion, Spain is a little like Russia. Builds are easy to execute but you don't really have much objective potential (bad eco, not too op units). Therefore, winning relies on opponent mistakes like suiciding half of his shit vs falcs/doing bad counter build. I think higher level we go, worse Spain is.
-
- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Garja wrote:With that said, shipment multiplier and rods attack would have been better changes than spanish gold and cheaper missionaries.
no kidding?! whowouldathunk...
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
umeu wrote:Garja wrote:With that said, shipment multiplier and rods attack would have been better changes than spanish gold and cheaper missionaries.
no kidding?! whowouldathunk...
Well Spanish gold and cheaper missionaries are both Zoi changes, that's not that surprising.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
spanish gold was a good try but doesnt suite or fit the civ at all
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
somppukunkku wrote:In my opinion, Spain is a little like Russia. Builds are easy to execute but you don't really have much objective potential (bad eco, not too op units). Therefore, winning relies on opponent mistakes like suiciding half of his shit vs falcs/doing bad counter build. I think higher level we go, worse Spain is.
I think so too. While they are generally quite versatile since they are able to build nearly all standard units (except for halbs), their lack of strong uniques or good royal guard units or at least good upgrade cards makest them weak.
In my opinion, the developers really missed a chance to make Spain a strong and interesting early game civ comparable to Ottomans. While Ottomans got their unique units of Jan/Abus(/Bombards) which stand for the rapid expansion of the Ottoman Empire, Spain got the Tercio pikeman. Unfortunately, the in-game unit does not come close in its impact to the historical spanish Tercio, which dominated european battlefields just as much (or even more?) than the Janissary etc. Especially since Spain was Habsburgian during that timeframe, which means that the real-life Tercios essentially countered the Ottoman advance into Europe by defending Austria/Hungary.
Also, I dislike Unction for some reason. Just don't enjoy using it.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
-
- Retired Contributor
- Posts: 1904
- Joined: Feb 11, 2015
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I always thought the opposite. Spain always looks pretty rubbish until right at the very top level someone will make them look invincible, especially in tournies with the standard ESOC rules.
Download ESOC Taunt Package : http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7250
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
WickedCossack wrote:I always thought the opposite. Spain always looks pretty rubbish until right at the very top level someone will make them look invincible, especially in tournies with the standard ESOC rules.
Yea, I think so too. You need to be very accurate, send the right shipments, make the right units, hit the right timing etc, to make them great.
-
- Pro Player
- Posts: 8050
- Joined: May 4, 2015
- ESO: PrinceofBabu
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
im very bad then
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Well there is a limit to what you can do without 400w, fast age up, ranged shipments, 1000g, and guard ranged units.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
duckzilla wrote:somppukunkku wrote:In my opinion, Spain is a little like Russia. Builds are easy to execute but you don't really have much objective potential (bad eco, not too op units). Therefore, winning relies on opponent mistakes like suiciding half of his shit vs falcs/doing bad counter build. I think higher level we go, worse Spain is.
I think so too. While they are generally quite versatile since they are able to build nearly all standard units (except for halbs), their lack of strong uniques or good royal guard units or at least good upgrade cards makest them weak.
In my opinion, the developers really missed a chance to make Spain a strong and interesting early game civ comparable to Ottomans. While Ottomans got their unique units of Jan/Abus(/Bombards) which stand for the rapid expansion of the Ottoman Empire, Spain got the Tercio pikeman. Unfortunately, the in-game unit does not come close in its impact to the historical spanish Tercio, which dominated european battlefields just as much (or even more?) than the Janissary etc. Especially since Spain was Habsburgian during that timeframe, which means that the real-life Tercios essentially countered the Ottoman advance into Europe by defending Austria/Hungary.
Also, I dislike Unction for some reason. Just don't enjoy using it.
The developers might have intended to, but were clearly quite oblivious to the fact that hand infantry truly becomes obsolete in a game consisting of land troops with 20 range and 7+-speed ranged cavalry. Oh, well, it's not like you couldn't learn a lesson from 5 years of AoC
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Here are my ideas for spain:
- revert all EP changes
- revert shipment modifier to vanilla (from current 25% discount to 27% iirc)
- revert lancer and rodelero shipments to vanilla values
- decrease 5 lancer shipment to 4, now infinite
- increase rodelero attack from 10 to 13, multiplier vs. cav from 3.5 to 3, multiplier vs. Li from whatever to 2.25
- increase rodelero siege damage from 10 to 20
Maybe also a change to fortress politicians?
- revert all EP changes
- revert shipment modifier to vanilla (from current 25% discount to 27% iirc)
- revert lancer and rodelero shipments to vanilla values
- decrease 5 lancer shipment to 4, now infinite
- increase rodelero attack from 10 to 13, multiplier vs. cav from 3.5 to 3, multiplier vs. Li from whatever to 2.25
- increase rodelero siege damage from 10 to 20
Maybe also a change to fortress politicians?
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Darwin_ wrote:Here are my ideas for spain:
- revert all EP changes
- revert shipment modifier to vanilla (from current 25% discount to 27% iirc)
- revert lancer and rodelero shipments to vanilla values
- decrease 5 lancer shipment to 4, now infinite
- increase rodelero attack from 10 to 13, multiplier vs. cav from 3.5 to 3, multiplier vs. Li from whatever to 2.25
- increase rodelero siege damage from 10 to 20
Maybe also a change to fortress politicians?
- reverse all EP changes
- implement most EP changes again
Tbh it sounds like a pretty sizable buff to current spain. Spanish gold/missionaries are irrelevant. 5 lancers becomes infinite 4 lancers which is kinda a buff, rods are much better and they get more shipments.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests