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Serbia Atomiswave
Lancer
Posts: 794

12 Apr 2019, 20:20

Buffing xbow range would be too much I think. Besides, reducing wood cost and transferring it to food is maximum zoom is willing to do with xbows.
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Canada dansil92
Lancer
Posts: 552
ESO: dansil92

12 Apr 2019, 23:09

Im saying as a unique shipment, maybe in addition to team inquisition or to replace 24 xbows, similar to the change made to spanish gold.
2+ range to ranged infantry
2+ los to ranged infantry
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Germany duckzilla
Dragoon
Posts: 388

13 Apr 2019, 16:19

I prefer a unique shipment giving pikemen +2 area dmg. I would love insta-spamming a hundred mini-doppels.
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
Great Britain Simples
Crossbow
Posts: 4

27 Apr 2019, 17:37

Anyone else agree that ESOC should buff rod to make spain a viable lancer rod civ which is different from the current meta as its a kinda just shove it in there! They have been last on the poll 2 patches in a row why not test it!
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Kiribati SirCallen
Gendarme
Posts: 7911
ESO: KTRAlN
Location: Midwest best west

28 Apr 2019, 01:52

Simples wrote:Anyone else agree that ESOC should buff rod to make spain a viable lancer rod civ which is different from the current meta as its a kinda just shove it in there! They have been last on the poll 2 patches in a row why not test it!

rods were buffed latest iteration
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9586
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

28 Apr 2019, 05:28

Rods were already buffed and rods are already viable, especially vs Port.
Somalia somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2540

15 Jul 2019, 16:26

Cav combat to boost goons. Atleast. Possibly shadow upgrade rods?
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Homo management SKG
No Flag aqwer
Skirmisher
Posts: 152

15 Jul 2019, 16:45

Special card for lancers (callerberaross ??) need to be buffed to, maybe +15hp.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6010

15 Jul 2019, 18:55

Fine with rods atm, fuck goons theyre for shit players. Rather some sort of eco or xp buff
Somalia somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2540

15 Jul 2019, 18:56

Seventh vill for Spanish golden years?
Could be refreshing, no joke.
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Homo management SKG
Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6010

15 Jul 2019, 18:58

Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.
Somalia somppukunkku
Jaeger
Donator 02
Posts: 2540

15 Jul 2019, 19:00

Hazza54321 wrote:Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.

Maybe together with EP buffs it would be too good. Not sure about nilla spain without, still in RE patch you could mostly strike to his resources with FF. In Ep they have 2 hunts and 3 mines left.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:07

aqwer wrote:Special card for lancers (callerberaross ??) need to be buffed to, maybe +15hp.
It's a relatively weak card, but it has great synergy with other Lancer upgrades. It also wouldn't be significant to the civilization's performance, in competitive 1 Vs 1.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:07

Hazza54321 wrote:Fine with rods atm, fuck goons theyre for shit players. Rather some sort of eco or xp buff
I'm glad you've come around, on this.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:07

somppukunkku wrote:Seventh vill for Spanish golden years?
Could be refreshing, no joke.
Could be brooken. No joke!
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:07

somppukunkku wrote:Cav combat to boost goons. Atleast. Possibly shadow upgrade rods?
I don't want to do that, unless the civilization cannot be balanced enough in other ways, which I'm confident it can. Along with the Lancer (and the hand infantry), it does seem like an intended design of the civilization. Making civilizations more symmetric should generally be avoided.

Buffing the Rodelero more is an option, because it would be tweaking an already good change. Other options I see include buffing the shipment experience multiplier, and Spanish Gold. Moving the latter to Colonial Age might be interesting.

Do keep in mind that the Pikeman is being buffed, and that the Exiled Prince is being nerfed, though.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:08

somppukunkku wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.

Maybe together with EP buffs it would be too good. Not sure about nilla spain without, still in RE patch you could mostly strike to his resources with FF. In Ep they have 2 hunts and 3 mines left.
I think it would be broken, without EP buffs.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
No Flag aqwer
Skirmisher
Posts: 152

15 Jul 2019, 19:35

Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
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Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7497

15 Jul 2019, 19:46

7th vill is huge. Would speed up all their builds by like 20 seconds which is a very big deal for Spain.
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8601
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

15 Jul 2019, 19:49

aqwer wrote:Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
Interesting, but quite radical, and very risky – don't you think?
Effective ESOC Patch notes

"In general you shouldnt say gg before clicking resign IMO"

"♪You can't trust anyone, because you're untrustable. How can you trust someone you know can't trust you?♫"
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Great Britain Riotcoke
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 1621
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

15 Jul 2019, 19:57

zoom wrote:
aqwer wrote:Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
Interesting, but quite radical, and very risky – don't you think?

Yes give spain the cheapest but strongest shipments, very fair.
You have the charisma of a damp rag, and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk. And the question that I want to ask, that we're all going to ask, is "Who are you?"
No Flag aqwer
Skirmisher
Posts: 152

15 Jul 2019, 19:58

I think it's good, the point of Spain bonus is fast shipment but they don't have anything good to ship, Germany is like a better Spain with tp (bad example but you know what I mean).
This change will produce a differential increase in strength with cost of shipment increase, balance each other out.
And imo Spain xp bonus should be same even after 2500xp cap which is not iirc.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7556
ESO: Garja

15 Jul 2019, 21:26

Nilla Spain is the only sensate way to make the civ actually competitive.
So basically rod and xp buff. Civ is already viable, just you dont expect the civ to be the favorite in many MUs.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Gendarme
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 9586
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

16 Jul 2019, 09:13

I don't think nilla spain would be too op, thus it would be interesting to buff their exp.
Australia Peachrocks
Skirmisher
Posts: 156
ESO: Peachrocks

26 Jul 2019, 00:06

The problem with nilla Spain is that its incredibly one dimensional. I mean hey that may be what people want but frankly if the goal of the game is to increase viable options, going back to the whole 'Spain FF or bust' which in turn would double down on the whole 'match up' nature of the game seems like it is a step backwards.

Spain's problem is that currently they more or less have to win quickly with their fast shipment bonus or else they fall off. There's a few reasons why this is.

First. As Aqwer pointed out they don't have many good or unique shipments. Spanish gold was a good attempt to give them some longevity but I don't think it's enough. Using Spain's shipment bonus for economic gain rather than militaristic should be viable. It isn't because none of their unique economic shipments are particularly useful aside Spanish Gold. Spain currently more or less has to flood the enemy right away and gain a massive advantage or win the game outright. Otherwise they are basically playing the game with no bonuses.

Second. All of their military upgrade cards are melee focused. All their combat cards with the exception of advanced arsenal help melee units only. They are the only civ in the game that has this particular flaw and I think it's a very crippling one for their long term prospects as battles get larger and melee units struggle to reach combat. Furthermore both Lancers and Rodeleros are exceptionally specialized units. Rods with their .40 melee resistance and multiplier against cavalry and Lancers with lesser damage than Hussars but obviously bonuses against infantry. It sounds nice in theory but in practice it's never really worked out. In the game's history Rods have been either annoyingly strong or useless because they are so specialized.

Considering the influential nature of the Spanish Tercio, the fact they don't have some sort of Skirmisher buff card is a bit silly. Yes I know they were really Muskeeteers in that formation but for the purposes of game play they functioned much closer to Skirmishers. Putting aside historical flavor, it doesn't change the base argument that Spain is the only civ in the game that completely lacks upgrade cards for any of it's ranged units.

In my subjective opinion whatever is done to Spain has to improve their mid to late game chances. Not their early game.

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