Spanish Discussion Thread
- Atomiswave
- Lancer
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Buffing xbow range would be too much I think. Besides, reducing wood cost and transferring it to food is maximum zoom is willing to do with xbows.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Im saying as a unique shipment, maybe in addition to team inquisition or to replace 24 xbows, similar to the change made to spanish gold.
2+ range to ranged infantry
2+ los to ranged infantry
2+ range to ranged infantry
2+ los to ranged infantry
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I prefer a unique shipment giving pikemen +2 area dmg. I would love insta-spamming a hundred mini-doppels.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Anyone else agree that ESOC should buff rod to make spain a viable lancer rod civ which is different from the current meta as its a kinda just shove it in there! They have been last on the poll 2 patches in a row why not test it!
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- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Simples wrote:Anyone else agree that ESOC should buff rod to make spain a viable lancer rod civ which is different from the current meta as its a kinda just shove it in there! They have been last on the poll 2 patches in a row why not test it!
rods were buffed latest iteration
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Rods were already buffed and rods are already viable, especially vs Port.
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- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Cav combat to boost goons. Atleast. Possibly shadow upgrade rods?
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Special card for lancers (callerberaross ??) need to be buffed to, maybe +15hp.
#trainableSpahi
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- Pro Player
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Fine with rods atm, fuck goons theyre for shit players. Rather some sort of eco or xp buff
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- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Seventh vill for Spanish golden years?
Could be refreshing, no joke.
Could be refreshing, no joke.
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- Pro Player
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.
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- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Hazza54321 wrote:Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.
Maybe together with EP buffs it would be too good. Not sure about nilla spain without, still in RE patch you could mostly strike to his resources with FF. In Ep they have 2 hunts and 3 mines left.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
It's a relatively weak card, but it has great synergy with other Lancer upgrades. It also wouldn't be significant to the civilization's performance, in competitive 1 Vs 1.aqwer wrote:Special card for lancers (callerberaross ??) need to be buffed to, maybe +15hp.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I'm glad you've come around, on this.Hazza54321 wrote:Fine with rods atm, fuck goons theyre for shit players. Rather some sort of eco or xp buff
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Could be brooken. No joke!somppukunkku wrote:Seventh vill for Spanish golden years?
Could be refreshing, no joke.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I don't want to do that, unless the civilization cannot be balanced enough in other ways, which I'm confident it can. Along with the Lancer (and the hand infantry), it does seem like an intended design of the civilization. Making civilizations more symmetric should generally be avoided.somppukunkku wrote:Cav combat to boost goons. Atleast. Possibly shadow upgrade rods?
Buffing the Rodelero more is an option, because it would be tweaking an already good change. Other options I see include buffing the shipment experience multiplier, and Spanish Gold. Moving the latter to Colonial Age might be interesting.
Do keep in mind that the Pikeman is being buffed, and that the Exiled Prince is being nerfed, though.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I think it would be broken, without EP buffs.somppukunkku wrote:Hazza54321 wrote:Might actually be good but theres a fine line of spain being too good. Rather small xp boost so u can 5v or 7 rod in transition no matter what without delaying your fortress one. Nilla spain seems pretty good to me considering the patch.
Maybe together with EP buffs it would be too good. Not sure about nilla spain without, still in RE patch you could mostly strike to his resources with FF. In Ep they have 2 hunts and 3 mines left.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
#trainableSpahi
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
7th vill is huge. Would speed up all their builds by like 20 seconds which is a very big deal for Spain.
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Interesting, but quite radical, and very risky – don't you think?aqwer wrote:Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
- Riotcoke
- Retired Contributor
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
zoom wrote:Interesting, but quite radical, and very risky – don't you think?aqwer wrote:Remove Spanish gold card and give them 100coin x age # with every shipment, would be a good change
Yes give spain the cheapest but strongest shipments, very fair.
twitch.tv/stangoesdeepTV
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I think it's good, the point of Spain bonus is fast shipment but they don't have anything good to ship, Germany is like a better Spain with tp (bad example but you know what I mean).
This change will produce a differential increase in strength with cost of shipment increase, balance each other out.
And imo Spain xp bonus should be same even after 2500xp cap which is not iirc.
This change will produce a differential increase in strength with cost of shipment increase, balance each other out.
And imo Spain xp bonus should be same even after 2500xp cap which is not iirc.
#trainableSpahi
Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
Nilla Spain is the only sensate way to make the civ actually competitive.
So basically rod and xp buff. Civ is already viable, just you dont expect the civ to be the favorite in many MUs.
So basically rod and xp buff. Civ is already viable, just you dont expect the civ to be the favorite in many MUs.
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
I don't think nilla spain would be too op, thus it would be interesting to buff their exp.
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- Lancer
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Re: Spanish Discussion Thread
The problem with nilla Spain is that its incredibly one dimensional. I mean hey that may be what people want but frankly if the goal of the game is to increase viable options, going back to the whole 'Spain FF or bust' which in turn would double down on the whole 'match up' nature of the game seems like it is a step backwards.
Spain's problem is that currently they more or less have to win quickly with their fast shipment bonus or else they fall off. There's a few reasons why this is.
First. As Aqwer pointed out they don't have many good or unique shipments. Spanish gold was a good attempt to give them some longevity but I don't think it's enough. Using Spain's shipment bonus for economic gain rather than militaristic should be viable. It isn't because none of their unique economic shipments are particularly useful aside Spanish Gold. Spain currently more or less has to flood the enemy right away and gain a massive advantage or win the game outright. Otherwise they are basically playing the game with no bonuses.
Second. All of their military upgrade cards are melee focused. All their combat cards with the exception of advanced arsenal help melee units only. They are the only civ in the game that has this particular flaw and I think it's a very crippling one for their long term prospects as battles get larger and melee units struggle to reach combat. Furthermore both Lancers and Rodeleros are exceptionally specialized units. Rods with their .40 melee resistance and multiplier against cavalry and Lancers with lesser damage than Hussars but obviously bonuses against infantry. It sounds nice in theory but in practice it's never really worked out. In the game's history Rods have been either annoyingly strong or useless because they are so specialized.
Considering the influential nature of the Spanish Tercio, the fact they don't have some sort of Skirmisher buff card is a bit silly. Yes I know they were really Muskeeteers in that formation but for the purposes of game play they functioned much closer to Skirmishers. Putting aside historical flavor, it doesn't change the base argument that Spain is the only civ in the game that completely lacks upgrade cards for any of it's ranged units.
In my subjective opinion whatever is done to Spain has to improve their mid to late game chances. Not their early game.
Spain's problem is that currently they more or less have to win quickly with their fast shipment bonus or else they fall off. There's a few reasons why this is.
First. As Aqwer pointed out they don't have many good or unique shipments. Spanish gold was a good attempt to give them some longevity but I don't think it's enough. Using Spain's shipment bonus for economic gain rather than militaristic should be viable. It isn't because none of their unique economic shipments are particularly useful aside Spanish Gold. Spain currently more or less has to flood the enemy right away and gain a massive advantage or win the game outright. Otherwise they are basically playing the game with no bonuses.
Second. All of their military upgrade cards are melee focused. All their combat cards with the exception of advanced arsenal help melee units only. They are the only civ in the game that has this particular flaw and I think it's a very crippling one for their long term prospects as battles get larger and melee units struggle to reach combat. Furthermore both Lancers and Rodeleros are exceptionally specialized units. Rods with their .40 melee resistance and multiplier against cavalry and Lancers with lesser damage than Hussars but obviously bonuses against infantry. It sounds nice in theory but in practice it's never really worked out. In the game's history Rods have been either annoyingly strong or useless because they are so specialized.
Considering the influential nature of the Spanish Tercio, the fact they don't have some sort of Skirmisher buff card is a bit silly. Yes I know they were really Muskeeteers in that formation but for the purposes of game play they functioned much closer to Skirmishers. Putting aside historical flavor, it doesn't change the base argument that Spain is the only civ in the game that completely lacks upgrade cards for any of it's ranged units.
In my subjective opinion whatever is done to Spain has to improve their mid to late game chances. Not their early game.
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