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Poland pecelot
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11 Jan 2019, 00:04

it's not great, is it? you get pretty much the same type of unit, and you have to send a card for it... in age 3; besides, unlike other shipments, rods don't get shadow-tech'd; you could also argue Tirailleurs give you ranged infantry for ranged infantry, but naturally skirms are superior to xbows
Le lion ne s'associe pas avec le cafard ! :food: :pop:
Netherlands momuuu
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11 Jan 2019, 00:07

The transformation cards generally aren't very good. Rather than trying to get value out of transforming shitty units into slightly better units, its often better to just make the good units in the first place and ship those good units/crates.
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France Kaiserklein
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11 Jan 2019, 00:13

It can definitely work as a surprise, especially since your opponent is likely to mass heavy inf if you make a lot of axes, so turning these into rr can let you get a great fight. But it can also totally fail and be just bad. Not sure about using it against spain ff, you'll have to time it very well, else your opponent will get skirms out and be just fine. But against something like colonial musks mass or musk huss, it could be fine.
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Italy Garja
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11 Jan 2019, 00:28

Transformation card are mostly played for the tactical element (switching unit to the direct counter) rather than for value. In fact only viable transformation cards do exactly that.
China transformation might be borderline because it includes the cost of the upgrades (and so does Sioux one actually). But like Spanish one is completely garbage.
Suvorov reforms card is great because, not only it transforms units to a different type that cost more, but also basically double the amount of musketeers you can have in the same time frame.
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Finland somppukunkku
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11 Jan 2019, 00:47

lol that transformation card is totally shit. to reach the magical 1k value, which is atleast required, u need 30 shitbows. And then, if your opponent runs some cav to you (assuming u only want to train shitbow for value), you can aswell uninstall aoe.

only reason I can imagine to use it is to "train age 3 unit" during age up. But because spanish eco is worse than in venezuela atm, u r likely to get like 10 out xD
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
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Italy Garja
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11 Jan 2019, 00:57

which card are you talking about
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Finland somppukunkku
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11 Jan 2019, 00:57

xbow --> skirm

ruski cuka blyat card can be ok I guess. dunno about china, only civ I dont play.
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
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Italy Garja
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11 Jan 2019, 01:04

ah that's the french one. Ye that's not great because it's the same unit type and the rare times you might age up with many xbows it's prob better to just vet them.
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Finland somppukunkku
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11 Jan 2019, 01:05

wtf I thought we talking about that one. Didn't know which transformation spanish have. Just assumed that as its discussed here.
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When I win, it's with homo, illegal and wrong strats.
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Italy Garja
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11 Jan 2019, 01:44

pike into rods :hehe:
Germany duckzilla
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11 Jan 2019, 06:56

Pike into rods is such an irrelevant card that people do not even remember its existence. It gives you none of the following potential benefits: 1) change into a different unit type, 2) upgrading to a better version of the same unit type, 3) change into a unit which was not available to mass beforehand (RR not available in age II), 4) saving resources by shadow teching or change into more expensive unit.

Rods are not even that much more expensive than (80res vs 100res), given that they are food heavier and dont cost wood. You could just start building rods directly. Also, it is like infinitely worse than Tirailleurs (xbow->skirm), since the latter one at least makes the originally built xbows upgradeable to guard/imperial skirms. Spanish pikes are upgradeable anyway, though they tend not to last long enough to make this viable. Finally... who even builds an amount of pikes (50+) to make this whole thing viable?
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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New Zealand zoom
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11 Jan 2019, 12:08

As Pecelot notes, Spanish is slated to be buffed with the next release. Additional general buffs were initially considered, but eventually scrapped, based largely on feedback – as is usually the case.

While sensible changes, "Spanish Gold" and the "Unction" buffs were never intended to be general buffs, across all game situations, unlike the rest of the changes to the civilization. Clearly, some posters in this thread would do well to accept or understand (depending on the case) that fact.
"Hazza's always playing NR10 to legitimize his crying about EP being NR10. How sad!"
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Poland pecelot
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11 Jan 2019, 14:53

Unction is always an option for late game, while Spanish Gold is a buff for the eco EP meta. 700w -> 5v -> 4v -> Spanish Gold -> 1000w -> 1000f :ugeek:
Le lion ne s'associe pas avec le cafard ! :food: :pop:
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France [Armag] diarouga
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11 Jan 2019, 14:55

pecelot wrote: 700w -> 5v -> 4v -> Spanish Gold -> 1000w -> 1000f :ugeek:

700w -> 5v -> 4v -> Spanish Gold -> 1000w -> 1000f - > resign - > blame the balance because you go for trash builds :uglylol:
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Poland pecelot
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11 Jan 2019, 14:58

the second last might be true, the last is definitely not!
Le lion ne s'associe pas avec le cafard ! :food: :pop:
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France Kaiserklein
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11 Jan 2019, 15:07

700g/700w/5v/spanish gold/1000w/1000f/units works though, in some cases
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Finland Hazza54321
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11 Apr 2019, 23:21

thoughts on hand inf att/hp age 2 and combat age 3into => archiac att/hp and combat?
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United States of America Darwin_
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12 Apr 2019, 00:41

Or Heavy Infantry atk/hp and combat?
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Canada dansil92
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12 Apr 2019, 05:06

What about a card that boosts range of ranged infantry? I know spain has no ranged unit upgrades so its a slight deviation but giving a 2+ range on their musks xbows and skirms could help give a slight advantage despite weaker units. Might possibly replace a hand infantry card or that 24 xbow shipment literally no one has probably ever sent. I would make it a colonial card *personally* as a way to encourage some colonial play but perhaps fortress would be a slight bit more balanced

Adding the range to goons seems a bit too strong but its hard to say for sure.
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No Flag ovi12
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12 Apr 2019, 11:22

dansil92 wrote:What about a card that boosts range of ranged infantry? I know spain has no ranged unit upgrades so its a slight deviation but giving a 2+ range on their musks xbows and skirms could help give a slight advantage despite weaker units. Might possibly replace a hand infantry card or that 24 xbow shipment literally no one has probably ever sent. I would make it a colonial card *personally* as a way to encourage some colonial play but perhaps fortress would be a slight bit more balanced

Adding the range to goons seems a bit too strong but its hard to say for sure.

I think that if people ever want to make xbow changes, Spain could serve as a nice prototype to try them out on before changing them for every civ and potentially having a huge effect on the game.
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Finland Hazza54321
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12 Apr 2019, 11:49

My point was that spain doesn’t have fast age so the upgrades would give them age 2 potential. Most civs that age slow tend to be pretty good in colonial, im thinking brit india jap , all 3 of those have very good upgrades for units
VeniVidiVici_W: lol bwinner, i dont need anyone to carry me to win vs you with your noobplay
Germany duckzilla
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12 Apr 2019, 11:57

Hazza54321 wrote:My point was that spain doesn’t have fast age so the upgrades would give them age 2 potential. Most civs that age slow tend to be pretty good in colonial, im thinking brit india jap , all 3 of those have very good upgrades for units

Errrmm.... You obviously forgot the best pikeman in the game? Which is even upgradable to imperial (no card!!)? And spammed instantly with that hot archaic inf and attack card (even team!!!!!)?

Half pike, half man - total terror!
"To counter the pike-boom, you must become the pike-boom." - Karl V. (HRE)
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Canada dansil92
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12 Apr 2019, 12:15

Hazza54321 wrote:My point was that spain doesn’t have fast age so the upgrades would give them age 2 potential. Most civs that age slow tend to be pretty good in colonial, im thinking brit india jap , all 3 of those have very good upgrades for units


Reasons spain sucks in colonial:
No 400 wood politician
No booming potential besides vill shipments

Reasons spain is good in colonial
Stronk pikes
Stronk huss

Spain has fantastic unit upgrades in colonial, just not for musks.2 cav cards 2 hand infantry cards. Rodeleros are beasts at raiding even if they arent good for much else

The reason i suggest a range boost rather than a stat boost is that in a musk war in colonial it wpuld give an advantage without breaking civ design.

I do agree xbows need some love. Maybe a multiplier boost could be enough imo
(Having 2+ range for spain would make xbows really nice for colonial wars)
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 826

12 Apr 2019, 14:21

I think xbow should have 18 range.
Idk people have experience but vs abus and gurkhas its very annoying when you cant even shoot back. Meanwhile they also loosing vs muskets.
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Canada dansil92
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12 Apr 2019, 20:07

Dsy wrote:I think xbow should have 18 range.
Idk people have experience but vs abus and gurkhas its very annoying when you cant even shoot back. Meanwhile they also loosing vs muskets.


I think SPAIN should get 18 range xbows. France and Germany need no more buffs and ports is plenty strong too

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