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Kawapasaka wrote:

gamevideo113 wrote:Tercio tactics: turns pikemen into rodeleros and grants the veteran rodelero upgrade.

I don't think would change anything. The main problem with the card is still the unanswerable question: What in God's name are you doing with 50 pikes as colonial Spain in the first place?

If pikemen get buffed as mentioned, Spain might use more pikes in colonial. But honestly if pike get range and rods don't, I think probably the pikes would still be better. By far one of the biggest drawbacks of melee inf units in general is that they block each other.

Among a number of things, I'm considering whether to keep Caballeros at +2 range (or replace that effect with -10% cost). If anyone I havent managed to ask has any opinion on it, I'm all eyes. Specifically, I'm concerned with the scaling of the unit being too strong.

Thanks!

zoom wrote:Among a number of things, I'm considering whether to keep Caballeros at +2 range (or replace that effect with -10% cost). If anyone I havent managed to ask has any opinion on it, I'm all eyes. Specifically, I'm concerned with the scaling of the unit being too strong.

Thanks!

We could try it with -10% cost but i mean to send Caballeros is hard enough, how will we able to send Caballeros card is my question tho, instead of the effect.

zoom wrote:Among a number of things, I'm considering whether to keep Caballeros at +2 range (or replace that effect with -10% cost). If anyone I havent managed to ask has any opinion on it, I'm all eyes. Specifically, I'm concerned with the scaling of the unit being too strong.

Thanks!

Lancers with Caballeros arent that strong tbh they die easy to cav and goon,i mean i can only use Caballeros when i play vs japan,china,maybe brits when hes still age2 its even hard to fight vs russias age2 cossacks cuz of boyars.
but the -10% cost is really nice tho

This is probably a very dumb idea and one that will not be appreciated by the top players but what if caballeros gave lancers a bonus against ranged cav ? To help fight skirm-goons comp that are hard for the spanish ?
[EDIT : Of course it would be a small bonus, not something that would transform the lancer into a counter to goons, just a little something to help.

Right now if I understand correctly lancers do very well against civs that relies on heavy infantry against cav and poorly against goon civs. Making the lancer perform slightly better against goon would help balancing the unit overall (note they would still be weak against goons, just less so, and weak against hand cav).

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:This is probably a very dumb idea and one that will not be appreciated by the top players but what if caballeros gave lancers a bonus against ranged cav ? To help fight skirm-goons comp that are hard for the spanish ?

Dunno,this is an idea which we have to discuss this would change everything like lancers would be the first hand cav unit that counters ranged cav.
need more replies to think if its good or not for the game design.

I have try the -10% stuff and its feel...weird, usually u send an upg when u have enough unit to make it worth it, but because this upg is barely an eco upg, if you send when you have like 20/25 lancer, you dont realy benefit from the -10% ^^, so i don't know.

@Rohbrot Not realy agree, lancer caba are great vs skirm/goon comp because your lancer can snare more easily and lancer/rodo are better overall.

Realy why we can't try +1 range? i means, it make rodo/lancer better but dont make lancer/lancer to op because lancer have a big socle.

+1 range might be reasonable. +2 is kinda insane imo.

chronique wrote:I have try the -10% stuff and its feel...weird, usually u send an upg when u have enough unit to make it worth it, but because this upg is barely an eco upg, if you send when you have like 20/25 lancer, you dont realy benefit from the -10% ^^, so i don't know.

@Rohbrot Not realy agree, lancer caba are great vs skirm/goon comp because your lancer can snare more easily and lancer/rodo are better overall.

Realy why we can't try +1 range? i means, it make rodo/lancer better but dont make lancer/lancer to op because lancer have a big socle.

Yes but u cant have the same amount of units while u make lancers whom are expensive and rods die really fast to skirms when they dont have any card ups.it feels like its just too hard to win with only lancer/rods vs a mass of goons/skirms when he just kites

chronique wrote:I have try the -10% stuff and its feel...weird, usually u send an upg when u have enough unit to make it worth it, but because this upg is barely an eco upg, if you send when you have like 20/25 lancer, you dont realy benefit from the -10% ^^, so i don't know.

@Rohbrot Not realy agree, lancer caba are great vs skirm/goon comp because your lancer can snare more easily and lancer/rodo are better overall.

Realy why we can't try +1 range? i means, it make rodo/lancer better but dont make lancer/lancer to op because lancer have a big socle.

and we have to think about that spain has not a great eco at all what makes them not able to hold with france or germany (maybe port) and dutch u have to agro ff vs some civs what is boring aff i want really that i can make only lancers and rods but i cant cuz my opponent has so many skirms and lancers thats just a massacre

Spanish gold is your friend.

Also you are not suppose to play rodo/lancer but skirm rodo lancer. Usually my game start by 2 rax skirm/rodo into transi mid game with caba lancer (when i dont play aggro). It work well because you are not suppose to make any more skirm (they are not suppose to die).

chronique wrote:Spanish gold is your friend.

Also you are not suppose to play rodo/lancer but skirm rodo lancer. Usually my game start by 2 rax skirm/rodo into transi mid game with caba lancer (when i dont play aggro). It work well because you are not suppose to make any more skirm (they are not suppose to die).

@chronique my friend ever when i did this i just lose to goon skirm cuir or other stuff dont know what to do tbh

I think skirm/rodo/caba lancer > skirm goon cuir. I win basicly every game vs fr when i reach this compo.

Ye that's cause rods counter goons and cuirs. A good french player knows he needs to add musks or halbs at some points vs fre. Then Spain has to add goons cause otherwise it gets stomped by cuirs. Also I think huss are just better all in all. Prob should only use lancers from cards.

chronique wrote:I think skirm/rodo/caba lancer > skirm goon cuir. I win basicly every game vs fr when i reach this compo.

to reach this combo it takes time fre is just faster when they ff and have a really good mass in early fortress cuz of skirm shipments dunno how i should win when i have 5skirm 5lancers 4 huss maybe some more skirms if a batch finishes vs 13skirm and 10goon

I think the best way for french its not mousket or halb (who are usless vs skirm rodo lancer because lancer shit on them) but just pur goon and few skirm, with a good kiting.

Yea I wouldn't make musks against 2 range lancer and skirms, just skirm goon, and if you're scared of the melee units, build some walls and you'll be fine.

Rods just gonna zone out goons and lancers rape skirms. I'm talking about big ass fights. It's trye usually French get more unit ups and cdbs usually win battles.

Rohbrot wrote:

chronique wrote:I think skirm/rodo/caba lancer > skirm goon cuir. I win basicly every game vs fr when i reach this compo.

to reach this combo it takes time fre is just faster when they ff and have a really good mass in early fortress cuz of skirm shipments dunno how i should win when i have 5skirm 5lancers 4 huss maybe some more skirms if a batch finishes vs 13skirm and 10goon

No, france is slower. Sure if you directly try to get rods (and their veterancy), and skirms, and lancers at the same time, yeah you're gonna be slower as spain.
But if you just open skirm with a few rods france won't be able to push your fb. Especially with dogs, the 4 huss age up (which should idle france a bit btw), the unit pop threat from tower and/or rax, and the 5/10 rods you trained while aging.
I'm usually able to hold my fb quite easily as spain vs france, while going spanish gold / 1000w. And when you get that eco going is when you can add a rax, get that rod veterancy and the big mass of skirm/rod + 2 falcs going, and add a stable for lancers if needed after that. Though you honestly don't want to make a lot of lancers, and caballeros is overrated anyway, it's more about the rods actually. 5 - 10 lancers + 4 huss is often enough cav

pretty sure carded gendamres with some ranged fire nukes skirm rod lancer

Kaiserklein wrote: and caballeros is overrated anyway

I'am glad to heard that , if i would said that, everybody would have told me that i'am biased.

+2 caballeros is actually pretty nuts.

Hazza54321 wrote:pretty sure carded gendamres with some ranged fire nukes skirm rod lancer

I guess only if you're able to get a critical mass of them, right?

Spain can crap out a shit ton of rods, seems that the match up is all about taking the fight at the right time and getting a slightly better composition than the opponent? I guess.

My timings are always off when I play :(

Hazza54321 wrote:pretty sure carded gendamres with some ranged fire nukes skirm rod lancer

That's why spain shouldn't really go lancer, unless fr makes a lot of skirms or something. You should go quite heavy on rods, and you can card them too.

gamevideo113 wrote:+2 caballeros is actually pretty nuts.

It's still not necessarily better than cav combat, depending on the situation. And regardless, there's a lot of situations where you wouldn't ship a cav upgrade anyway.