Japanese Discussion Thread

[Garja]

Just wanted to say I can't wait for deck checking to be removed, I've lost count of how many times a sepoy rush has turned into passive shrine sieging without even coming into sight of my base when I ship 5 yumis first.

Ye there is a thing about overcommitting to defense etc. That's mostly cause Japan are slow at the beginning and some civs just naturally counter them.
We will see how it works after the removal tho.

[dansil92]

In-Yo Rush: Yabusame gets +20% attack and +1.0x multiplier against artillery

May i suggest this card be looked at? Perhaps:

Yabusame gets +20% attack and +1.0x multiplier against cavalry

[Zutazuta]

Do Japan really need another anticav option? Yabs have a unique role in the game; I kind of like them like they are. I agree the card needs changes, but maybe extra range or speed, not a buff vs cav.

[dansil92]

Do Japan really need another anticav option? Yabs have a unique role in the game; I kind of like them like they are. I agree the card needs changes, but maybe extra range or speed, not a buff vs cav.

Perhaps 4.5x vs cav is too much (i always forget they have essentially same dps vs cav as eagle runners [with pavillion and daymio which you have anyways]) but im just looking at yabusame again and their cards are so weird, maybe an hp card? Speed or range sound good too or maybe -10% cost...?

[zoom]

Do Japan really need another anticav option? Yabs have a unique role in the game; I kind of like them like they are. I agree the card needs changes, but maybe extra range or speed, not a buff vs cav.

Perhaps 4.5x vs cav is too much (i always forget they have essentially same dps vs cav as eagle runners [with pavillion and daymio which you have anyways]) but im just looking at yabusame again and their cards are so weird, maybe an hp card? Speed or range sound good too or maybe -10% cost...?

I think the priority should be to make the unit more viable, in the first place. Looking at shipments is an option in the future. Please note that buffing the unit, itself, is buffing the shipments improving it, though.

[Hazza54321]

well the unit is viable, just in niche circumstances which is fine

[Kaiserklein]

Yea it actually does counter cannons really well, plus being able to dps cav down a bit and having mobility. If you know they're going cannons I think the unit is totally viable already.

[Hazza54321]

well cannons are probably the one of the few weaknesses of japan and it should stay that way unless u give yumi 0.1 multiplier vs cav

[dansil92]

well cannons are probably the one of the few weaknesses of japan and it should stay that way unless u give yumi 0.1 multiplier vs cav

0.1

[zoom]

Yea it actually does counter cannons really well, plus being able to dps cav down a bit and having mobility. If you know they're going cannons I think the unit is totally viable already.

In that case, I hope we'll see it used, soon. Reverting the buff just might become desirable, one day.

[Kaiserklein]

Yabusames are used already. But you don't need yabusames to deal with 2 falcs as you have flaming arrows. You only see them against mass falcs, which people rarely do.

[Astaroth]

Biggest problem with yabusame is imo their range. They have less range than skirms.

This means that if your opponent has a large amount of falcs, anticav and skirms, it's really hard to deal with. The skirms can be placed in front of the cannons, sniping any incoming yabusame easily.

[Garja]

I never had problems vs artillery with Japan. I mean even just pure infantry sometimes can deal with that.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I'd say that people don't go musk/canon/culv because they're afraid of yabusame, the unit is definitely not useless against someone going mass artillery.

[dansil92]

Biggest problem with yabusame is imo their range. They have less range than skirms.

This means that if your opponent has a large amount of falcs, anticav and skirms, it's really hard to deal with. The skirms can be placed in front of the cannons, sniping any incoming yabusame easily.

It takes some good skirms to punch through 50rr, considering like, 10 yabusame can take down a falc every 1.5 seconds

[Astaroth]

10 yabusame is 1500 gold, that is almost 4 culvs worth of resources. 4 culvs can annihalate countless falcs at range without being in danger, unless the opponent also has culvs. Nobody would make yabusame if they had culvs.

Yabusame have to dive in. Imagine a scenario where your opponent masses a large amount of units, say 100 pop (rest vills) of like 8 falc, skirm and goon. Yes, you will be able to kill like 3 falc with your yabusame, but then all of them get sniped. Then you still have say mass inf or cav vs falc/goon.

You also can't commit with your units to kill the skirms and guard the yabusame, because falcs have higher range, so they will destroy your whole army on the way.

[n0el]

well, yumi have insane range once they are carded in age 3.

[dansil92]

10 yabusame is 1500 gold, that is almost 4 culvs worth of resources. 4 culvs can annihalate countless falcs at range without being in danger, unless the opponent also has culvs. Nobody would make yabusame if they had culvs.

Yabusame have to dive in. Imagine a scenario where your opponent masses a large amount of units, say 100 pop (rest vills) of like 8 falc, skirm and goon. Yes, you will be able to kill like 3 falc with your yabusame, but then all of them get sniped. Then you still have say mass inf or cav vs falc/goon.

You also can't commit with your units to kill the skirms and guard the yabusame, because falcs have higher range, so they will destroy your whole army on the way.

but culvs dont have a rof of 1.5, thats kind of the point, you can take down five falcs in just 7 1/2 seconds with only ten... also yabusame really aren't that much more expensive than goons anyways (210 res instead of 180), and yumi are food & wood so its really not that big of a deal. Like said above, if you know someone is going artillery heavy, yabusame are not only just viable, but extremely good and arent useless like culvs afterwards, having pretty decent DPS against cav and similar range to yumi.

just saying, if someone has 100 pop, with 8 of it falcs, thats gonna leave a max of like 25 skirms and 10 goons or similar. 25 skirms = 17 damage, 0.75 against yabusame (1.5x0.5 armour) for 318 damage potential to them: yabusame have 240 hp means even if you focus fire perfectly with the skirms you can kill 1.5 yabusame max, every three seconds, while you've lost 1000 res of falcs in the time it takes a skirm to reload. On paper and in practice, yabusame are NUTS against an artillery heavy army, which is why they are not only viable, but desirable.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yabusame are worse than culvs so what ? Yumi is the best RI in the game, does it mean that we should nerf it to the ground ? Some civs have some very good units but lack some others and have to use worse units to compensate, that's not a big deal.

[chronique]

Some civs have some very good units but lack some others and have to use worse units to compensate, that's not a big deal.

China have strong units everywhere and for free

[Garja]

Yabusame are better than culvs come on lol. Having both antiartillery and anticav is just good.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Some civs have some very good units but lack some others and have to use worse units to compensate, that's not a big deal.

China have strong units everywhere and for free

That's wrong though. They do have a lot of free units but they don't have :
1) A good cav in age 2
2) Trainable musks
3) Goons
4) Culvs. Hand mortars do the job but they take ages and crows don't have a lot of range
5) Falcs. Again, they do have the crows but they're not trainable and they suck in age 3.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yabusame are better than culvs come on lol. Having both antiartillery and anticav is just good.

Yabusame get sniped while culvs don't. Also you can't "hit and run" the falcs with yabusame or kill them instantly before they have time to shoot. The anticav part is irrelevant, I could claim that culvs are a great anti boat but we were talking about anti artillery.

[chronique]

China have strong units everywhere and for free

That's wrong though. They do have a lot of free units but they don't have :
1) A good cav in age 2
2) Trainable musks
3) Goons
4) Culvs. Hand mortars do the job but they take ages and crows don't have a lot of range
5) Falcs. Again, they do have the crows but they're not trainable and they suck in age 3.[/quote]

I was sarcastic but age 3 all of there unit are good at for what there are designed, and furthermore, they can upg all of this unit and have strong merco.

So no, i wasn't sarcastic afterthought

[Garja]

Yabusame are better than culvs come on lol. Having both antiartillery and anticav is just good.

Yabusame get sniped while culvs don't. Also you can't "hit and run" the falcs with yabusame or kill them instantly before they have time to shoot. The anticav part is irrelevant, I could claim that culvs are a great anti boat but we were talking about anti artillery.

Culvs are useless even if they dont get sniped. Plus gl sniping yabusame when they have 18 range and 50% rr. I never had that problem, in fact I'd say yabusame are more durable than goons and that compensates the higher cost.