Great Britain Hazza54321
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14 Sep 2016, 18:07

forgrin wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
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What? They have 4upgrades, and a very strong mid colonial eco

4? You mean the 2 camel cards (colonial vs fortress context). And realistically to beat a fortress civ you'd need a stronger long colonial eco, you probably won't break them in your mid colonial since they have unit shipments.

Edit: almost forgot. Good buff to India would be to decrease sacred field cost to 150w or 200w from current 250w.

they have op 30% camel card, desert terror, brit consulate and the hand att card that buffs sepoy hand att and camels by 3 more. And they have a vill per shipment and a 4v shipment and 2 trickles so their late colonial eco is really strong but most early-mid fortress timings crush india which is the main reason theyre weak.
Germany lordraphael
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14 Sep 2016, 18:20

Hazza54321 wrote:
forgrin wrote:
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4? You mean the 2 camel cards (colonial vs fortress context). And realistically to beat a fortress civ you'd need a stronger long colonial eco, you probably won't break them in your mid colonial since they have unit shipments.

Edit: almost forgot. Good buff to India would be to decrease sacred field cost to 150w or 200w from current 250w.

they have op 30% camel card, desert terror, brit consulate and the hand att card that buffs sepoy hand att and camels by 3 more. And they have a vill per shipment and a 4v shipment and 2 trickles so their late colonial eco is really strong but most early-mid fortress timings crush india which is the main reason theyre weak.

they get 45 % attack on sowars plus better multipliers vs infantry ( tho im not really a dan of that card its pretty weak imo) that combined with 10 % from brit cons plus another 10 % on atk and HP makes soward probably the unit with the most upgrades available. they could be OP if they werent so squishy
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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14 Sep 2016, 18:24

lordraphael wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
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they have op 30% camel card, desert terror, brit consulate and the hand att card that buffs sepoy hand att and camels by 3 more. And they have a vill per shipment and a 4v shipment and 2 trickles so their late colonial eco is really strong but most early-mid fortress timings crush india which is the main reason theyre weak.

they get 45 % attack on sowars plus better multipliers vs infantry ( tho im not really a dan of that card its pretty weak imo) that combined with 10 % from brit cons plus another 10 % on atk and HP makes soward probably the unit with the most upgrades available. they could be OP if they werent so squishy

thats what i said big boy
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United States of America Mvp618
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14 Sep 2016, 19:25

Hazza54321 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
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they get 45 % attack on sowars plus better multipliers vs infantry ( tho im not really a dan of that card its pretty weak imo) that combined with 10 % from brit cons plus another 10 % on atk and HP makes soward probably the unit with the most upgrades available. they could be OP if they werent so squishy

thats what i said big boy

lets be honest tho your thoughts aint important Hazzerp
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14 Sep 2016, 19:40

Desert terror can be pretty nice tbh, better than the melee upgrade I think. Depends on the opponents composition really.
Great Britain Hazza54321
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14 Sep 2016, 20:12

Mvp618 wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
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thats what i said big boy

lets be honest tho your thoughts aint important Hazzerp

:(
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15 Sep 2016, 02:17

Hazza54321 wrote:
Mvp618 wrote:
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lets be honest tho your thoughts aint important Hazzerp

:(

Hey, I can see where this is heading, but you cannot bully Mr.Wood that just too far
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15 Sep 2016, 05:38

Realistically Russians and Indians are the only ones who acctually still rush your opponent, let some japanese shenanigans aside. Even Otto goes for Stagecoach.
Might just not touch that one.
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15 Sep 2016, 06:54

Tbh I dont even think india is that weak. You just cant play them slowly in a lot of mus.
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No Flag ovi12
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15 Sep 2016, 07:03

yemshi wrote:Realistically Russians and Indians are the only ones who acctually still rush your opponent, let some japanese shenanigans aside. Even Otto goes for Stagecoach.
Might just not touch that one.

Aztec, Iro sometimes? Otto may rush sometimes too, vs germany for example, but maybe that's not neccesary anymore with the uhlan nerf
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15 Sep 2016, 09:32

lordraphael wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
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they have op 30% camel card, desert terror, brit consulate and the hand att card that buffs sepoy hand att and camels by 3 more. And they have a vill per shipment and a 4v shipment and 2 trickles so their late colonial eco is really strong but most early-mid fortress timings crush india which is the main reason theyre weak.

they get 45 % attack on sowars plus better multipliers vs infantry ( tho im not really a dan of that card its pretty weak imo) that combined with 10 % from brit cons plus another 10 % on atk and HP makes soward probably the unit with the most upgrades available. they could be OP if they werent so squishy
On the other hand, their attack and hitpoints are quite a bit below average, although the high speed is very nice.
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 Sep 2016, 17:27

I dont even get why we are even arguing about India. They really dont need a lot of changes, probably just an addition of +2.0x against artillery in colonial for zambs. That is really the only needed change, except for maybe giving them 700w instead of 600 and a sepoy nerf (not HP because that would hurt their rush too much) if the zamb buff is too much. We just need to actually make some changes and test it.
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Canada forgrin
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16 Sep 2016, 18:08

Darwin_ wrote:I dont even get why we are even arguing about India. They really dont need a lot of changes, probably just an addition of +2.0x against artillery in colonial for zambs. That is really the only needed change, except for maybe giving them 700w instead of 600 and a sepoy nerf (not HP because that would hurt their rush too much) if the zamb buff is too much. We just need to actually make some changes and test it.

That's pretty much what people are suggesting, minus the sepoy nerf. Also 2x vs artillery is quite low for zamb considering their bad base attack and that you won't have more than 10-15ish max if say France does falc push at 9:00, which means you definitely sack all the zamb for the falcs. Maybe sowar need slight HP buff to help vs falcs?
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United States of America Darwin_
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16 Sep 2016, 23:34

forgrin wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:I dont even get why we are even arguing about India. They really dont need a lot of changes, probably just an addition of +2.0x against artillery in colonial for zambs. That is really the only needed change, except for maybe giving them 700w instead of 600 and a sepoy nerf (not HP because that would hurt their rush too much) if the zamb buff is too much. We just need to actually make some changes and test it.

That's pretty much what people are suggesting, minus the sepoy nerf. Also 2x vs artillery is quite low for zamb considering their bad base attack and that you won't have more than 10-15ish max if say France does falc push at 9:00, which means you definitely sack all the zamb for the falcs. Maybe sowar need slight HP buff to help vs falcs?

Now that I think about it, it would probably be better to buff sowars, as zambs are just so good in team games. That makes so much sense, you can buff their hp a little bit, and maybe give them a multiplier vs. cannons. I actually really like that.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
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Brazil lemmings121
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16 Sep 2016, 23:46

But imo sowars are fine early game, maybe tie this hp upgrade to camel atack card or something, so the early game/rushes/timmings are unaffected.
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Canada forgrin
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17 Sep 2016, 00:16

Sowars are shit at all times. Ofc it'd be basically impossible to do the math on this, but I bet they do much less damage per cost than huss if your opponent micros correctly and focuses them down first. As you say @lemmings121 , the only time they're potentially equal to huss (per cost) is when unit masses are small so they don't just die right away.
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Italy Garja
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17 Sep 2016, 01:19

sowars are great
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Tuvalu gibson
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17 Sep 2016, 01:53

Sowers aren't great lol....... They're okay and maybe decent once you get a few cards sent but they're far from great
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United States of America Darwin_
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17 Sep 2016, 02:25

Garja wrote:sowars are great

They sacrifice Hp and attack for speed, which is totally useless because they suck vs. villagers and cant tank in front of guhrka or penetrate a line and get to cannons. They need to be buffed. They are very good with all cards though. Nerf cards, buff base stats IMO.
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Italy Garja
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17 Sep 2016, 03:29

30% rr, speed is super important, they have more upgrades and their attack vs infantry is like 2x the one of hussars with same number of upgrades.
They're simply a more hard counter unit than huss, just like all asian cav. You must be crazy to buff any India unit.
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Canada forgrin
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17 Sep 2016, 04:02

Garja wrote:30% rr, speed is super important, they have more upgrades and their attack vs infantry is like 2x the one of hussars with same number of upgrades.
They're simply a more hard counter unit than huss, just like all asian cav. You must be crazy to buff any India unit.

They would have excellent stats as a ranged unit, but melee units inherently need to be more tanky. It's fine that they're a more hard counter, but they still need to live long enough to do damage, which they don't for the most part. Why do people favour cav HP cards over cav attack?
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Poland pecelot
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17 Sep 2016, 07:44

Garja wrote:30% rr, speed is super important, they have more upgrades and their attack vs infantry is like 2x the one of hussars with same number of upgrades.
They're simply a more hard counter unit than huss, just like all asian cav. You must be crazy to buff any India unit.

I agree entirely!
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Great Britain Hazza54321
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17 Sep 2016, 09:15

Sowars are borderline op with all ups
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17 Sep 2016, 09:36

Darwin_ wrote:
Garja wrote:sowars are great

Omg Garja (g in omg stands for garja btw), sowars are objectively a shit unit and you really cant say anything to convince any of us that they are good. They sacrifice tons of Hp and attack for speed, which is totally useless because they suck vs. villagers and cant tank in front of guhrka or penetrate a line and get to cannons. They need to be buffed.
While they aren't shit – let alone objectively, although I do appreciate the Garjument – and (again) despite their high speed, they are certainly one of the weaker heavy cavalry units in the game, being considerably more situational. Ironically and unfortunately, in the vast majority of situations this is a disadvantage, and the Sowar underperforms.

Indians is a tough nut to crack, because team players are already crying "OP" since the dawn of time, even beyond TEAM Urumi.
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17 Sep 2016, 09:43

Garja wrote:30% rr, speed is super important, they have more upgrades and their attack vs infantry is like 2x the one of hussars with same number of upgrades.
They're simply a more hard counter unit than huss, just like all asian cav. You must be crazy to buff any India unit.
They have "more upgrades" and "their attack vs infantry is like 2x that of the Hussar?" OK

All four elephants, the Rajput and the Sowar all seem sane candidates for buffing.
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