Indians Discussion Thread

[EAGLEMUT]

Unless Kev can do some crazy unhardcoding, the only possible thing we can adjust is duration and how the icon looks like.

[n0el]

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We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

This is good. That would make the ability have its intended effect instead of it being used aggressively.
Replacing it entirely is fine too imo

Lol, this is entirely messing up with the game mechanics. 'Cease fire' is literally meant to stop the fighting between the soldiers. If you replace it with what diarouga said, the civ is losing an unique ability. Why don't you nerf/change the ability of wonders like Golden Pavilion or Porcelain Tower? They will lose their significance if you do, It is the same for Taj Mahal. It is better to nerf units that are being abused during the cease fire and the best is to leave India as they are now.

You say cease fire is meant to stop fighting but it's actually used to initiate fighting, so it doesn't make sense in its current state either. The game mechanic is broken so you either need to mess with it or replace it. Shortening the duration into insignificance shouldn't be an option because you might as well replace it then.

Is it possible to make all military units retreat to their nearest town center for the duration of the ability?

That would make sense but the issue is that you could get your opponent how of position, that's a bit lame.

Imagine that hype play, going between your opponent army and their TC and clicking cease fire. AI moves the armies on top of each other.

[Goodspeed]

Haha

[[Armag] diarouga]

That would be better than the current cease fire, and definitely exciting but it would become boring at one point xD.

[_RDX_]

Maybe slow down the speed of all Indian military units when ceasefire is triggered? I know it doesn't make any sense but it could work right? So that the ability is used more 'defensively' as you all want. Is this possible?

[n0el]

That would hurt it defensively if you are trying to get to a raid or back home to stop siege or something.

[Riotcoke]

Maybe give units a debuff for the first 5 seconds after ceasefire, then you can't use it to meme into a group of units because of urumi.

[_RDX_]

That would hurt it defensively if you are trying to get to a raid or back home to stop siege or something.

No, you have 10 secs with which you can quickly run your vills with the pull trick. Also, there's a possibility of having the minutemen ready incase of siege to buy time for the military units in return. But you're right, it is still not enough.

[lemmings121]

Unless Kev can do some crazy unhardcoding, the only possible thing we can adjust is duration and how the icon looks like.

is it possible to replace the effect completelly? like, make it instead heal like the japanese wonder.

[_RDX_]

is it possible to replace the effect completelly? like, make it instead heal like the japanese wonder.

It is actually the chinese wonder Temple of Heaven lol. And again, changing the ability is messing with the significance of the civ.

[EAGLEMUT]

Unless Kev can do some crazy unhardcoding, the only possible thing we can adjust is duration and how the icon looks like.

is it possible to replace the effect completelly? like, make it instead heal like the japanese wonder.

Yes, it is possible to remove the Cease Fire effect completely and make it work similarly or same as a different wonder power.

[edeholland]

Garja and I discussed this issue at the LAN and we concluded it's best if the Indian units could not attack anything, but the enemy units could. After all, it's India that wants a cease fire, not the opponent.

[deleted_user0]

Garja and I discussed this issue at the LAN and we concluded it's best if the Indian units could not attack anything, but the enemy units could. After all, it's India that wants a cease fire, not the opponent.

Tfw it's Garja and I can't even determine if this is a joke or reality.

[lemmings121]

is it possible to replace the effect completelly? like, make it instead heal like the japanese wonder.

It is actually the chinese wonder Temple of Heaven lol. And again, changing the ability is messing with the significance of the civ.

my bad.

and imo, gameplay > "significance of the civ".
India is my main civ, but even I can see that cease fire + urumi shouldnt exist, and I dont like the idea of removing urumis, so.....

[Sargsyan]

Garja and I discussed this issue at the LAN and we concluded it's best if the Indian units could not attack anything, but the enemy units could. After all, it's India that wants a cease fire, not the opponent.

DDDDD

[Sargsyan]

Increasing cease fire time might help opponent to unpack his falcs and gtfo in time before it stops.

[zoom]

Garja and I discussed this issue at the LAN and we concluded it's best if the Indian units could not attack anything, but the enemy units could. After all, it's India that wants a cease fire, not the opponent.

Tfw it's Garja and I can't even determine if this is a joke or reality.

It can only be a joke. Garja is nowhere near that stupid.

[deleted_user]

Call it 'weak fire' and halve all unit damage.

[deleted_user0]

How about "Greece Fire", 300 gold spawns to your TC every time, as a loan from European Union?

@BrookG

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

TLDR: suggest increasing the time of the power from 20 seconds to 45 seconds

I can see there is a lot of discussion about the current state of the ceasefire power from the Taj Mahal wonder up. I would also like to chuck my hat into the ring and talk about its relation to Ceasefire in AoM: The Titans.

In AoM: AoM is a faster paced game however games usually last between 10-30 minutes which isn't to dissimilar to AoE3. Age up politicians {minor gods} grant 'God Powers' as well enable myth units and allow unique techs to be researched. Finally population is increased by building TC's on empty settlements and each standard map contains 6 settlements (not including starting town center).

Ceasefire is a Classical age {age 2} god power for the greek civilisations and is available to Zeus and Poseidon if they advance through the god Hermes. Ceasefire lasts for 1 minute (60 seconds). Ceasefire is a strong power but no quite top tier. It can be used defensively and offensively and a standard 1v1/team match essentially can be heavily effected if a greek player can manage to get to the mythic age {age 4} without having to use the power defensively.

Defensive uses of Ceasefire include defending exposed front golds from all in rushes, hippikon/Raiding Cav raiding, villager/military teleport from Ptah's shifting sands, buying time from strong heroic timing pushes (similar to ff's/semi-ff's) like Isis's Ancestors and eclipse or Bragi's Flaming Weapons.

Other major examples include having to delay a Norse/baldr all in ragnarok {Very similar to Revolt} or having to rebuild towncenters / production/ houses from powers like meteor/tornado/earthquake/Implode.

If the Greek player can manage to survive to the mythic age, they can make a play for the enemies 3rd/back towncenter to take a 4-2 town center and population lead in the match.

Zeus can use Apollo's underworld passage to transport its army (humans/colossus/heliopoli as well as villagers to take down the enemies TC before the enemy can react. Once the foundations are laid and the construction has started, ceasefire is cast to ensure the safe construction of the TC. Similarly Poseidon can do the same after using Artemis's Earthquake on a TC.

Back to Aoe3: Currently It is well known that ceasefire is useful to position your army 'onto' another army for meelee units, this is a massive game changer in AoE3 due to the large variety of ranged units. The duration of 20 seconds is enough to catch artillery out in the open or push your enemies army to edge of the map if its cast while you are in the enemies town / under TC {If attacking}. 20 seconds is also enough to stop early-game game changing raids however the are better options to age up to age 2. 20 seconds though however is not enough time to throw up towers/walls/train a new batch of units or cancel and resend a military shipment.

By increasing the Ceasefire duration to 45 seconds, it can give a player defending who is defending from a ceasefire push that extra crucial time to prepare for the forthcoming fight, essentially nerfing the aggressive use of ceasefire. On the other hand it provides more strategic options defensively to gain a tech advantage, protect eco or pull back from an attack going wrong.

If ceasefire is currently believed to be 'broken' then i believe this duration increase to be a better alternative to fundamentally changing what Ceasefire does which some people have mentioned above.

Cheers,
H

P.S. the Youtube channels of BoitTV/Blackadder Plays/RTS League is great source of AoM content if people are interested and I will vouch that AoM>AoEO

[deleted_user]

I wasn't kidding with 'Weak Fire.'

[zoom]

Quit bullying me!

Another idea is to have the ability trigger upon wonder completion, possibly also at a set interval of time, after that, so long as it remains standing. It would make it less abusable, and less useful in general.

[deleted_user]

So no one would age up with cease fire wonder?

[Riotcoke]

Quit bullying me!

Another idea is to have the ability trigger upon wonder completion, possibly also at a set interval of time, after that, so long as it remains standing. It would make it less abusable, and less useful in general.

Or just add a delay. like a notification of when the ceasefire is coming. E.g add a delay of 20 secs?

[[Armag] diarouga]

So no one would age up with cease fire wonder?

You still would when you FI.