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With now I mean in the current meta. People realized that you don't need to strictly match the age up times of civs like fre/ger/iro (traditionally decent countercivs), nor that you need to strictly match the army composition (skirm+goon).
It took a while because buying time isn't exactly an immediate asset to think of but with experience it becomes more evident.
Anyway it's not like they win everyime with that but having good eco+strong musk is just the quintessence of opness in aoe3 (look at how dominant japs and brits have been in past) so it is always a latent asset that India has, and other civs have a limited number of ways to counter it.
Combine it with other ways of playing the civ and it's easy to see why it's so strong.

Yea, India is easy in the current meta because you can just spam sepoys+urumis. That's easy to do, however a good player is going to beat it.

India has become the type of civ that you can blame each game for having lost against, even when you did the wrong strat.

can we actually remove ceasefire

Hazza54321 wrote:can we actually remove ceasefire

Yea, it doesn't make sense to have that kind of stuff in a RTS game.

i posted this even before that shitshow

Maybe don't remove it, but make it really short, otherwise the wonder is sort of useless

Making it short isn't necessarily a nerf. You can't always chase someone for a full 20 seconds, as oftentimes the last efw seconds is just enough time for the opponent to get a better position in a choke point or escape etc. Making it short means you can flank and call it instantly and in the brief period your opponent has much less time to react.

I think making it longer would be more of a nerf to aggressive ceasefire (more time to construct gates to avoid the melee units for example), and a buff to defensive ceasefire.

In general though it's very difficult to predict whether increasing or decreasing the duration of ceasefire would have the intended effects simply because it's very situational and differs from game to game.

Personally though I don't have any big problems with ceasefire.

Mitoe wrote:Making it short isn't necessarily a nerf. You can't always chase someone for a full 20 seconds, as oftentimes the last efw seconds is just enough time for the opponent to get a better position in a choke point or escape etc. Making it short means you can flank and call it instantly and in the brief period your opponent has much less time to react.

I think making it longer would be more of a nerf to aggressive ceasefire (more time to construct gates to avoid the melee units for example), and a buff to defensive ceasefire.

In general though it's very difficult to predict whether increasing or decreasing the duration of ceasefire would have the intended effects simply because it's very situational and differs from game to game.

Personally though I don't have any big problems with ceasefire.

Yes that's actually a pretty funny but valid point. Making the cease fire last longer could be more of a nerf than making it shorter.

imagine a 5 minute ceasefire rofl

I think two options:

1) Don't change anything
2) "Nerf" meme (by making it longer) but buff indian cav. Otherwise this civ sux ass without being a full goon-skirm bot.

We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

I think making the time shorter would be a great nerf. It means they need to commit earlier to get in a good position therefore losing more units in the process. However i would just remove it

[Armag] diarouga wrote:We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

This is good. That would make the ability have its intended effect instead of it being used aggressively.
Replacing it entirely is fine too imo

Hazza54321 wrote:I think making the time shorter would be a great nerf. It means they need to commit earlier to get in a good position therefore losing more units in the process. However i would just remove it

We'd need to make it last like 5 sec then. Even 10 sec is too long imo.

Just 5 seconds would be ideal imo. That would also make it have it's what i believe intended effect as in a one time emergency button in case you have 20 opri in your base and didn't notice early enough etc, instead of having an aggressive option

5 seconds won't do anything if you have 20 opris in your base. Nerfing it to 5 seconds makes the aggressive use of it fine, but it makes the defensive use of it pretty much pointless

How about making it significantly reduce the attack of units on the map, to like 1/5 of their actual attack, but still allow them to attack? Also increase the time to 20 seconds maybe. So that the defensive option is still somewhat there, but if you use it aggressively you'll still be targetable by the enemy and at least you won't be able to bump your army into his for 100% free. idk

why? its just meant to prevent a vil loss if you dont pay attention for a sec, 5 secs is enough to put vils in tc and task zambs to your base which is fine as a defensive cease fire

Jerimuno wrote:why? its just meant to prevent a vil loss if you dont pay attention for a sec, 5 secs is enough to put vils in tc and task zambs to your base which is fine as a defensive cease fire

Hmm yeah i guess it could work.

Goodspeed wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

This is good. That would make the ability have its intended effect instead of it being used aggressively.
Replacing it entirely is fine too imo

Lol, this is entirely messing up with the game mechanics. 'Cease fire' is literally meant to stop the fighting between the soldiers. If you replace it with what diarouga said, the civ is losing an unique ability. Why don't you nerf/change the ability of wonders like Golden Pavilion or Porcelain Tower? They will lose their significance if you do, It is the same for Taj Mahal. It is better to nerf units that are being abused during the cease fire and the best is to leave India as they are now.

Jerimuno wrote:Just 5 seconds would be ideal imo. That would also make it have it's what i believe intended effect as in a one time emergency button in case you have 20 opri in your base and didn't notice early enough etc, instead of having an aggressive option

Hazza54321 wrote:I think making the time shorter would be a great nerf. It means they need to commit earlier to get in a good position therefore losing more units in the process. However i would just remove it

As said before, shorter duration wouldn't necessarily be a nerf. Even 5-10 seconds can be enough to quickly get on top of your opponent's cannons. And with so short duration you don't have time to either pull-trick your cannons away to safety, or throw down some walls with a gate to escape through. Also like @gamevideo113 said, a short cease fire makes the ability too weak when used defensively.

_RDX_ wrote:

Goodspeed wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

This is good. That would make the ability have its intended effect instead of it being used aggressively.
Replacing it entirely is fine too imo

Lol, this is entirely messing up with the game mechanics. 'Cease fire' is literally meant to stop the fighting between the soldiers. If you replace it with what diarouga said, the civ is losing an unique ability. Why don't you nerf/change the ability of wonders like Golden Pavilion or Porcelain Tower? They will lose their significance if you do, It is the same for Taj Mahal. It is better to nerf units that are being abused during the cease fire and the best is to leave India as they are now.

You say cease fire is meant to stop fighting but it's actually used to initiate fighting, so it doesn't make sense in its current state either. The game mechanic is broken so you either need to mess with it or replace it. Shortening the duration into insignificance shouldn't be an option because you might as well replace it then.

Is it possible to make all military units retreat to their nearest town center for the duration of the ability?

Isn’t the issue Sepoy/Urumi and not cease fire? You wouldn’t use the ability offensively if you didn’t have the urumi to jam in on top of everything. I don’t see anyone using ceasefire to get their Gurkha Zam offensive set up. Seems like changing cease fire is attacking the wrong part of the problem.

First of all, before we think about all possible somali-style nerfs, I would like to bring this famous quote to the table.

Garja wrote:they re fine, l2p

Goodspeed wrote:

_RDX_ wrote:

Show hidden quotes

Goodspeed wrote:

[Armag] diarouga wrote:We had a discussion about cease fire at the LAN. I think that the best way to fix it is to allow the military units to attack the other military units, but not the villagers/buildings. That way you can defend a raid, or save a building (TC/agra), which is good but going in with cease fire is broken lol.

After this change, you'd have to go skirm/goon as India but I guess that's fine. Maybe we could buff mahouts, I don't know.

This is good. That would make the ability have its intended effect instead of it being used aggressively.
Replacing it entirely is fine too imo

Lol, this is entirely messing up with the game mechanics. 'Cease fire' is literally meant to stop the fighting between the soldiers. If you replace it with what diarouga said, the civ is losing an unique ability. Why don't you nerf/change the ability of wonders like Golden Pavilion or Porcelain Tower? They will lose their significance if you do, It is the same for Taj Mahal. It is better to nerf units that are being abused during the cease fire and the best is to leave India as they are now.

You say cease fire is meant to stop fighting but it's actually used to initiate fighting, so it doesn't make sense in its current state either. The game mechanic is broken so you either need to mess with it or replace it. Shortening the duration into insignificance shouldn't be an option because you might as well replace it then.

Is it possible to make all military units retreat to their nearest town center for the duration of the ability?

That would make sense but the issue is that you could get your opponent how of position, that's a bit lame.