Indians Discussion Thread

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Increasing cease fire is a buff, why would you do that?

The 2nd option seems much better imo.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by tedere12 »

What about giving a slight nerf to urumi speed every time you perform ceasefire? This way they won't be able to surround you and get massive meelee advantage that easily.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

Just nerf urumi slightly as the unit itself is clearly too strong, especially in the industrial age.
Both 30% rr and ROF 1.0 are over par. Once urumi becomes a bearable unit then cease fire is a no problem. That is unless you consider a problem also rajput or mahout or w/e unit flanking. In that case then just remove the ability entirely and make it clear you simply don't want it to be used with aggressive purposes. That's a design choice more than a balance fix tho.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

Garja wrote:Just nerf urumi slightly as the unit itself is clearly too strong, especially in the industrial age.
Both 30% rr and ROF 1.0 are over par. Once urumi becomes a bearable unit then cease fire is a no problem. That is unless you consider a problem also rajput or mahout or w/e unit flanking. In that case then just remove the ability entirely and make it clear you simply don't want it to be used with aggressive purposes. That's a design choice more than a balance fix tho.

Lol. Just nerf every good unit and ignore the fact that they have the worst cav of the game.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Riotcoke »

somppukunkku wrote:
Garja wrote:Just nerf urumi slightly as the unit itself is clearly too strong, especially in the industrial age.
Both 30% rr and ROF 1.0 are over par. Once urumi becomes a bearable unit then cease fire is a no problem. That is unless you consider a problem also rajput or mahout or w/e unit flanking. In that case then just remove the ability entirely and make it clear you simply don't want it to be used with aggressive purposes. That's a design choice more than a balance fix tho.

Lol. Just nerf every good unit and ignore the fact that they have the worst cav of the game.

They can get expensive huss though!
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

somppukunkku wrote:
Garja wrote:Just nerf urumi slightly as the unit itself is clearly too strong, especially in the industrial age.
Both 30% rr and ROF 1.0 are over par. Once urumi becomes a bearable unit then cease fire is a no problem. That is unless you consider a problem also rajput or mahout or w/e unit flanking. In that case then just remove the ability entirely and make it clear you simply don't want it to be used with aggressive purposes. That's a design choice more than a balance fix tho.

Lol. Just nerf every good unit and ignore the fact that they have the worst cav of the game.

Bro TAD units have always been OP. The only reason why TAD civs are not nerfed to the ground is because semi FF civs got a buff from old 200w change. Still yumi/sepoy/urumi, etc. are problematic.
And no India cav is not that bad.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

somppukunkku wrote:
Garja wrote:Just nerf urumi slightly as the unit itself is clearly too strong, especially in the industrial age.
Both 30% rr and ROF 1.0 are over par. Once urumi becomes a bearable unit then cease fire is a no problem. That is unless you consider a problem also rajput or mahout or w/e unit flanking. In that case then just remove the ability entirely and make it clear you simply don't want it to be used with aggressive purposes. That's a design choice more than a balance fix tho.

Lol. Just nerf every good unit and ignore the fact that they have the worst cav of the game.


coyote runners
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Sargsyan »

you can still park your sepoys on your opponents army with urumi nerf, so I'd rather nerf cease fire than touch urumis
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

sepoy are not faster than skirms, Idk how you can park them
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Sargsyan »

a little obstacle or a pathing issue will do the job
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Shit like urumi and elifents can block the units and have them path around awkwardly. Theres been plenty of times where the guy making the counter unit is pinned in a location.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

I think nerfing Ceasefire makes more sense than nerfing Urumi. The unit isn't really a glaring issue, otherwise, and nerfing it would only be significant outside of Ceasefire – unless it's nerfed to the point of general uselessness. I would only consider nerfing the Urumi if you want to nerf Indians, overall, and even then, I'd rather nerf something else, if possible.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Garja »

I'm ok with a general Indian nerf and in particular urumi. Urumi are indeed an issue.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

May i suggest nerfing their multiplier against cav and coyote runners? The trouble i fond with urumi is that like 15 cossacks 8-10 huss or like 35 coyotes will still lose to 7 urumi and thats... pretty stupid for a skirm. And thats not even the industrial ones. India lacks artillery i get that- urumi are supposed to clean up masses of infantry. Its that they dont even lose to their counters most of the time that makes them feel so 'broken'
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by deleted_user0 »

dansil92 wrote:May i suggest nerfing their multiplier against cav and coyote runners? The trouble i fond with urumi is that like 15 cossacks 8-10 huss or like 35 coyotes will still lose to 7 urumi and thats... pretty stupid for a skirm. And thats not even the industrial ones. India lacks artillery i get that- urumi are supposed to clean up masses of infantry. Its that they dont even lose to their counters most of the time that makes them feel so 'broken'

They lose to cav pretty badly. It's probably the 50 sepoys behind them that melt the cav.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by amiggo1999 »

yea Urumi die to cav very quickly...
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by amiggo1999 »

Coyote are the worst cav vs Urumi, as, being a small unit, they suffer more vs the area damage.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

amiggo1999 wrote:Coyote are the worst cav vs Urumi, as, being a small unit, they suffer more vs the area damage.
Are you sure about that? Regardless, the unit only has 10% ranged resistance.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by Hazza54321 »

Coyote do suck vs urumi
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

dansil92 wrote:May i suggest nerfing their multiplier against cav and coyote runners? The trouble i fond with urumi is that like 15 cossacks 8-10 huss or like 35 coyotes will still lose to 7 urumi and thats... pretty stupid for a skirm. And thats not even the industrial ones. India lacks artillery i get that- urumi are supposed to clean up masses of infantry. Its that they dont even lose to their counters most of the time that makes them feel so 'broken'
Per cost, the Urumi definitely does poorly vs heavy cavalry units. Along with other units mixed in, I think Ceasefire makes people overestimate the unit, in general.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

Hazza54321 wrote:Coyote do suck vs urumi
In relative terms, I agree, like I implied. I don't know that it has anything to do with their spacing, though.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by princeofcarthage »

Closed spacing allows urumi to inflict area damage, probably the reason why 10 well spaced hussars would inflict more effective damage than 30 packed coy/cossacks
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by dansil92 »

Yeah i have definitely struggled vs india as aztec enough times to know a low hp 10rr unit that bunches together gets wrecked by urumi. Thats AFTER coyote combat, temple support and 10wp attack dance and they still take around 30 to beat the 7 urumi just by themselves. Eagle runners kiting is really the only answer aztec has unless you are REALLY cheeky and put the coyote in cover mode and let mace/erk dps behind them. Russia has a similar problem with cossacks being quite low hp
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

princeofcarthage wrote:Closed spacing allows urumi to inflict area damage, probably the reason why 10 well spaced hussars would inflict more effective damage than 30 packed coy/cossacks
Again, I'm not sure. Please explain to me the technical details of aoe3 splash damage.
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Re: Indian Discussion Thread

Post by zoom »

dansil92 wrote:Yeah i have definitely struggled vs india as aztec enough times to know a low hp 10rr unit that bunches together gets wrecked by urumi. Thats AFTER coyote combat, temple support and 10wp attack dance and they still take around 30 to beat the 7 urumi just by themselves. Eagle runners kiting is really the only answer aztec has unless you are REALLY cheeky and put the coyote in cover mode and let mace/erk dps behind them. Russia has a similar problem with cossacks being quite low hp
I'd love to test your scenario. I think Coyotes win easily.

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