I agree with suggestion to give zams small artillery attack bonus before disciplined upgrade, so India at least has a chance to deal with cannons in age 2.
Looks like the elephant is indeed a lot slower. I'd think that changes with armor and riders on it though. Think war horse vs race horse.
Well you cant just say universally one animal is faster than another.....there are so many different breeds of horses and elephants. Like I bet a your standard elephant is faster than a miniature pony
For the next iteration of EP, I'd like to see a slight change for the Indians, namely the following: Buffing their 600c shipment to 700c. This could allow them to either mass slightly more effectively off of this shipment in mid-colonial or to follow a Fortress age up more easily.
edit: @H2O_
H2O_ wrote:notification
, other India players I don't know (i think @Hazza54321
forgrin wrote:For the next iteration of EP, I'd like to see a slight change for the Indians, namely the following: Buffing their 600c shipment to 700c. This could allow them to either mass slightly more effectively off of this shipment in mid-colonial or to follow a Fortress age up more easily.
edit: @H2O_
H2O_ wrote:notification
, other India players I don't know (i think @Hazza54321
Hazza54321 wrote:notification
? )
I don;t think Hazza plays much India, ik Tit, Aizamk and myself and of course h20 play India. Probs a lot more too but can't think on top of my head, idk India seems pretty decent, and 100c difference wouldn't change them that much i feel. Maybe making their villages cost 90w or something would be better than a 100c bonus shipment.
i do play india however there arent many top india players anymore, i can think of indiarouga and ryan and perhaps garja on form but either way no one really plays india. 700c instead of 600c is very big, lets not change another vill cost its getting stale. I would also change 600w to 700w perhaps to make india abit faster in terms of tempo however i would consider a sepoy hp nerf
Hazza54321 wrote:i do play india however there arent many top india players anymore, i can think of indiarouga and ryan and perhaps garja on form but either way no one really plays india. 700c instead of 600c is very big, lets not change another vill cost its getting stale. I would also change 600w to 700w perhaps to make india abit faster in terms of tempo however i would consider a sepoy hp nerf
Yeah I agree completely with Hazza here, well said boy! #OneDayI'll 10/10 thuggie rush h20 and win!
I wouldnt touch sepoy hp, india is the only civ that truly rushes right now. It would be ridiculously sad to remove that and further standardize the civ.
+100 coin isnt really that huge, by the point 600g is a thing indias usually dead anyways.
Jerom wrote:I wouldnt touch sepoy hp, india is the only civ that truly rushes right now. It would be ridiculously sad to remove that and further standardize the civ.
+100 coin isnt really that huge, by the point 600g is a thing indias usually dead anyways.
Yeah I agree here, like i stated before, 100c wouldn't change **** , and nerfing Sepoy hp is not the greatest idea
What about a reducing age up times by, let's say, 10%? It would result in harder rushes, faster shipments, faster villagers, faster market upgrades etc. Though I'm not sure if you'd acctually have a shipment stacked if you age up faster. How many seconds would 10% result in?
yemshi wrote:What about a reducing age up times by, let's say, 10%? It would result in harder rushes, faster shipments, faster villagers, faster market upgrades etc. Though I'm not sure if you'd acctually have a shipment stacked if you age up faster. How many seconds would 10% result in?
Anyway best change seems to be zamb multipliers.
I was thinking about this idea, but like you said you wouldn't even have a shipment ready unless you do like a new build with 15 vills, because now you have the 10% bonus, but if normal age up time with 1 vill is like 1min 45? or something, 10% of that is like, 15 seconds, so like 4:50 instead of something which be 5min-5:10min if aging with 1 vill which is ok i guess. Honestly I think the best change would be starting with 7 vills with India and not 6 , and also reducing age up time by 10%, that would be a cool change! :)
yemshi wrote:What about a reducing age up times by, let's say, 10%? It would result in harder rushes, faster shipments, faster villagers, faster market upgrades etc. Though I'm not sure if you'd acctually have a shipment stacked if you age up faster. How many seconds would 10% result in?
Anyway best change seems to be zamb multipliers.
I was thinking about this idea, but like you said you wouldn't even have a shipment ready unless you do like a new build with 15 vills, because now you have the 10% bonus, but if normal age up time with 1 vill is like 1min 45? or something, 10% of that is like, 15 seconds, so like 4:50 instead of something which be 5min-5:10min if aging with 1 vill which is ok i guess. Honestly I think the best change would be starting with 7 vills with India and not 6 , and also reducing age up time by 10%, that would be a cool change! :)
problem is that it would make the 10/10 even more anoying, 12 sepoys at 5mins are a pain to deal unless you are h20 with vill micro. Maybe reducing age up times instead of the desired effect would just make 10/10 rush the standard But other then that seems nice. the slow agra is too slow, and semi ffs are pretty much impossible because it takes so long.. - Another aproach that I like is giving the zamb bonus vs art with desert terror card. India is a colo civ by design that is countered by this meta with semi ff>2 canons. This change might just make long term colonial play more possible against those civs, while it doesnt change the civ playstyle/design
desert terror change is a great idea. It's a pretty bad card to begin with, so no harm in making it stronger. 2 falc is such a huge hurdle for India (which is why France MU is so much harder than Germany imo).
Reducing age time isn't great because, as ppl said, it encourages 10/10.
I personally try to avoid sending 600w when playing India since it's simply not that useful. You can have nearly the same structure established by sending big trickle and shifting a couple more vills over to wood, netting you +4v without wasting a shipment on crates. I only do it to recover from hard sepoy/cons rush tbh. Then again I'm a noob, so maybe 700w would be more useful than I know :p
Hazza54321 wrote:I hate the idea of an artilerry multiplier it means india have an answer to every fortress unit in colonial
Except for lacking unit upgrades and having a mediocre long colonial eco.
What? They have 4upgrades, and a very strong mid colonial eco
4? You mean the 2 camel cards (colonial vs fortress context). And realistically to beat a fortress civ you'd need a stronger long colonial eco, you probably won't break them in your mid colonial since they have unit shipments.
Edit: almost forgot. Good buff to India would be to decrease sacred field cost to 150w or 200w from current 250w.
Hazza54321 wrote:I hate the idea of an artilerry multiplier it means india have an answer to every fortress unit in colonial
I'm also afraid that might be the case. some input from top players is needed, and some tests.
But at the same time, a fortress player has all veteran units, better cards etc, so I dont think that india will be able to stay forever in age2 against age3. Is just an option to hold early age 3 timmings, since right now the only option is "mass cav, right click falcos, pray"
Just give them 700w/700c and zambs an artillery multiplier in colonial they would literally be like one of the most balanced civs on EP. I would also not be apposed to giving them an extra wood or food crate (or a villager) at the start instead of 600w/600c crate buffs.
In my thread: what the patch notes for EP 1.3 should look like, I also suggested an HP nerf and lowered cost to sepoys, but that is probably to big of a deal. In all honesty, the 12 sepoy rush is not that strong and I dont think it should really be nerfed, I only put those things in because many others wanted to get rid of india's rush capabilities. What I think we and the patch team needs to decide is if they are going to buff india's rushing play, or their eco/brit-style play. A buff to their rush would mean no touches to their eco but buffs like age time reduction, extra starting crates; or you could buff their eco and late colonial, possibly increasing 600w to 700w, buffing zambs, and something else like the hp nerf cost lowering that I suggested.
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didn't know that tbh
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