Indians Discussion Thread

[gibson]

Lol at whoever said musks are a bad unit before upgrade cards

[momuuu]

It''s a fucking Fort. If anything, remove the Sepoys that come with it in the Colonial Age or change them to Rajputs.

its not, its more like a huge blockhouse.

[Good ol Ivan]

It''s a fucking Fort. If anything, remove the Sepoys that come with it in the Colonial Age or change them to Rajputs.

pretty much.

For India I would suggest:
-Reduce camel attack from 30% to 20%
-Agra doesn''t provide units in colo


And just maybe:
-Move sepoys to Fortress altogether. Sepoys are kinda broken and India has age 2 light cav and rajputs anyway. Otherwise increase their cost by 5 coin.
-Increase houses cost to 100w
-Move the wood forests card or whatever to industrial and make them provide a wood trickle instead of 5000 wood to gather.

[_DB_]

It''s a fucking Fort. If anything, remove the Sepoys that come with it in the Colonial Age or change them to Rajputs.

pretty much.

For India I would suggest:
-Reduce camel attack from 30% to 20%
-Agra doesn''t provide units in colo


And just maybe:
-Move sepoys to Fortress altogether. Sepoys are kinda broken and India has age 2 light cav and rajputs anyway. Otherwise increase their cost by 5 coin.
-Increase houses cost to 100w
-Move the wood forests card or whatever to industrial and make them provide a wood trickle instead of 5000 wood to gather.

lol

India need no nerf or buff.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I think the purpose of a strong unit like the sepoy is that it is because they have a slow train rate and no reliable way to make artillery. And cost considerably more. once you get to later ages civs catch up with use of more infantry cards and would make the sepoy weaker later on for that cost and train rate.

[noissance]

Make rajputs faster and make urumi trainable ag monastery, very expensive

[forgrin]

It''s a fucking Fort. If anything, remove the Sepoys that come with it in the Colonial Age or change them to Rajputs.

pretty much.

For India I would suggest:
-Reduce camel attack from 30% to 20%
-Agra doesn''t provide units in colo


And just maybe:
-Move sepoys to Fortress altogether. Sepoys are kinda broken and India has age 2 light cav and rajputs anyway. Otherwise increase their cost by 5 coin.
-Increase houses cost to 100w
-Move the wood forests card or whatever to industrial and make them provide a wood trickle instead of 5000 wood to gather.

If you move sepoy to Fortress you have no siege in age 2 that isn't flail elephants lol. This would just make Japan an auto win vs India.

[[Armag] diarouga]

India is UP why would you nerf them

[Hazza54321]

india is balanced

[gibson]

india is balanced

Nah India just loses to a Russian SMS rush. Buff plz

[britishmusketeer]

lmao

[Hazza54321]

SMS rush> all

[_DB_]

Now i feel India needs a slight buff instead of any nerf

India is decent in early and mid game, but their late game is kinda shitty, because their eco is nothing special in late game and their units aren't too proper

The elephants are very bad when it comes to their cost

a mahout is supposed to be efficient as 2 cuirassiers but their cost and pop is highly unbalanced

i feel that the card that reduces the pop should decrease their cost a bit too

I just feel that India needs nothing else, they are just fine and highly playable in 1v1s
it should make the costs of-
mahout - 325 food and 225w
howdah - 300 food 300 gold
siege eles - 200w and 450g

it might make that card more usable and give India better late game and it will do nothing to normal indian metas

i want to see this change more for team games, in late team games India just starts sucking

i don't mean India sux in team, they are very good, the team 5 urumi definitely needs a nerf, its just that indian late game is not so special

[forgrin]

Now i feel India needs a slight buff instead of any nerf

India is decent in early and mid game, but their late game is kinda shitty, because their eco is nothing special in late game and their units aren't too proper

The elephants are very bad when it comes to their cost

a mahout is supposed to be efficient as 2 cuirassiers but their cost and pop is highly unbalanced

i feel that the card that reduces the pop should decrease their cost a bit too

I just feel that India needs nothing else, they are just fine and highly playable in 1v1s
it should make the costs of-
mahout - 325 food and 225w
howdah - 300 food 300 gold
siege eles - 200w and 450g

it might make that card more usable and give India better late game and it will do nothing to normal indian metas

i want to see this change more for team games, in late team games India just starts sucking

i don't mean India sux in team, they are very good, the team 5 urumi definitely needs a nerf, its just that indian late game is not so special

That's a good change, well thought out. I'd also like some slight changes to flail elephants to make them a little more viable, eg...

125f/c -->150f/c
325 HP --> 355 HP
5atk --> 7atk

Or something like that. Right now they're complete shit, especially for a 4-pop unit.

[momuuu]

I think india is fine anyhow. Theyre a very good team civ and a good 1v1 civ too with many interesting options.

[forgrin]

I think india is fine anyhow. Theyre a very good team civ and a good 1v1 civ too with many interesting options.

Eh... The only real reasons they're good in team are the 2 camel cards and team 5 urumi. Not much else about them is special in team IMO.

For 1v1 they're pretty decent though, they just kinda suck against the Cav semi meta. Hopefully after the next balance patch cav semi is nerfed slightly and India can have a chance in those MUs.

[momuuu]

I think india is fine anyhow. Theyre a very good team civ and a good 1v1 civ too with many interesting options.

Eh... The only real reasons they're good in team are the 2 camel cards and team 5 urumi. Not much else about them is special in team IMO.

For 1v1 they're pretty decent though, they just kinda suck against the Cav semi meta. Hopefully after the next balance patch cav semi is nerfed slightly and India can have a chance in those MUs.

Well whenever I play india in team people kinda say its OP for some reason. Age 2 zambs are pretty amazing honestly, and their eco is pretty good too. At some point they stop being amazing and become a bit meh but thats fine to me.

Also, to be balanced in 1v1 you lose a few match ups and win a few. Cant make them win all mus because thatd make them OP. I think they can do pretty well against almost every civ in this game if you choose the right build order tbh.

[forgrin]

I think india is fine anyhow. Theyre a very good team civ and a good 1v1 civ too with many interesting options.

Eh... The only real reasons they're good in team are the 2 camel cards and team 5 urumi. Not much else about them is special in team IMO.

For 1v1 they're pretty decent though, they just kinda suck against the Cav semi meta. Hopefully after the next balance patch cav semi is nerfed slightly and India can have a chance in those MUs.

Well whenever I play india in team people kinda say its OP for some reason. Age 2 zambs are pretty amazing honestly, and their eco is pretty good too. At some point they stop being amazing and become a bit meh but thats fine to me.

Also, to be balanced in 1v1 you lose a few match ups and win a few. Cant make them win all mus because thatd make them OP. I think they can do pretty well against almost every civ in this game if you choose the right build order tbh.

I like what you said about 1v1 balance. IMO they need Fortress to punish certain things and as they are they're a little slow up but not by much, which is probably just fine. They are definitely the best designed civ in the game.

[Hazza54321]

I think india is fine anyhow. Theyre a very good team civ and a good 1v1 civ too with many interesting options.

Eh... The only real reasons they're good in team are the 2 camel cards and team 5 urumi. Not much else about them is special in team IMO.

For 1v1 they're pretty decent though, they just kinda suck against the Cav semi meta. Hopefully after the next balance patch cav semi is nerfed slightly and India can have a chance in those MUs.

india are op in team, they hve a very good mid game eco and can either mass very strong goons or get immediate map control and mass cost effective musks basically making cav useless and raiding useless too.

[britishmusketeer]

India is definitely not too weak. They lose to french but apart from that most of it's match ups are more or less even.

[zoom]

Terran OP. Nerf please!

[_DB_]

India is definitely not too weak. They lose to french but apart from that most of it's match ups are more or less even.

I agree. India definitely is not too weak. Problem is that it is not strong either. It loses majority of match ups on EP, but not by much extent. India has an overall almost 45% winning rate for average of all match ups, which is neither too bad, neither too good.

It isn't like Spain which either lose badly to some civs or wins too easily vs some civs (for e.g, Spain vs Otto and Spain vs Dutch, where it's almost impossible to beat otto and almost impossible for Dutch to win)

On RE, India is very close to an ideal civ,who don't win much, neither lose much. On EP, it is much weaker than an ideal civ.

On RE, India's MUs: arranged in order of decreasing toughness

India vs Sioux - 40-60
India vs Otto - 40-60
India vs Iro - 40-60
India vs French - 40-60
India vs China - 45-55
India vs Germany - 45-55
India vs Aztec - 45-55
India vs Japan - 45-55
India vs British - 55-45 (on good hunt maps 50-50)
India vs Dutch - 55-45
India vs Russia - 55-45
India vs Spain - 60-40
India vs Portuguese - 60-40

On EP, India's MUs: arranged in order of decreasing toughness

India vs French - 40-60
India vs China - 40-60
India vs Otto - 40-60
India vs Germany - 40-60
India vs Sioux - 45-55 (not sure if 50-50 now)
India vs Aztec - 45-55 (I just feel a perfect azzy do win this MU, the MU is quite hard even if you play perfectly as India)
India vs Iro - 45-55
India vs Japan - 45-55
India vs Dutch - 45-55
India vs British - 50-50
India vs Spain 55-45 (according to diarouga, it can't be sure cuz on a tp map, its like 50-50 when spain plays perfectly)
India vs Russia - 55-45
India vs Portuguese 55-45

So, on RE, sioux and otto are true counters to India, while on EP, French and China are true counters to India.

On RE, India beats 5 civs, while
On EP, India only beats 3 civs (but still hard time vs a perfect Spain)

The only fair MU to India is vs British, where both civs equally scale vs each other on good maps.

[tedere12]

pretty sure china loses to india unless u have exceptionally cood vill micro. Plus india is versatile on no tp maps while semi ff isnt. And they win british which is a big deal. I think you are underastimating india but im not a good player to judge. From my experience india tends to be very good early on but kind of struggles during lategame.

[momuuu]

I think india germany is pretty close, that india beats spain harder, that india beats russia slightly harder, that they do much better vs iro, that they beat brits like 60-40. I don't see how the dutch winrate improves by 10% over getting +~140 xp at 10 minutes. I think India just straight up beat sioux hard, and if anything that they do worse against EP sioux by like 5%. I feel like China vs India is a super close match up actually. I think you almost structurally underrated india by 5% here.

[_DB_]

India vs germany isnt close

You can't sepoy rush, they just laugh killing them with 6 minutes and 5-7 ulhans, and you can't make a lot of zambs before he gets more number of ulhans, sowars suck hard in this mu, ulhan just body block them.

Same with India vs China, on good hunt maps/livestock maps, a perfect china is too hard to pull off. It is actually as tough as India vs Germany. On RE, it's actually very close to fair.

India vs British isn't that high india favored. It is 60-40 on shit maps like RE, but on good EP maps it is totally fair and close to 55-45. Brits do hold the sepoy rush with outpost/tc fire and mm longbow pop.

India beat brits when they have not sufficient longbows. Sowars are nothing compared to huss against longbows when you don't send the cards, and a good longbow musk huss or longbow pike huss isn't too easy to pull off. You can't kite longbows. It may not be 50-50, but pretty sure it is not more than 55-45.

India vs Dutch was never too unfair match up for Dutch, they just seem to do well vs whatever india does. I don't know how does Dutch beat India on EP, but it just does, not because of the bonus, but also because of the maps. Dutch are though less food-dependent, but when they have a lot of food in their base. I don't know how, but the match up is quite better for Dutch than that on RE. I might have underrated it, but i'm sure it is very close to 50-50 but not higher.

India don't beat sioux for sure, india already is very weak any type of ranged cavalry mass (the same reason india lose to french), and bow riders are too strong in general, they just have too much HP (thnx EP for nerfing it), but still India has no special potential to actually beat sioux.

Having low hunt maps hurts both civs. Now sioux's warhut start is a bit better now because of the aenna buff.