Temutu and Christian2502 disqualification

[collect1onn]

Who is sid?

A guy with an infinite amount of smurfs

Does he have a main acc that he is known by?

Sid18 or jamus are his Most famous ones as far as i knoe

[Gichtenlord]

And, afaik, ironfan70

[Jaeger]

Hm interesting, I guess he somehow got very good witouth playing much with the top players hasn't he

[Foire421]

the question is, if they smurf who the hell are they?

[Jack]

sid and storm999

[Jack]

and imho it was storm999 on temutu and sid on christian

[Papist]

@dicktator_

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If you knew lag and smurfing were issues before the match, why did you allow it to proceed? It is indeed unfair to everyone involved for you to be aware of an issue, ignore it, let a late-stage match take place, and then post-actively take away a win. If you are going to have tournament rules, you must apply them quickly and universally. You can't give some people a pass, or suddenly penalize others for long-known violations in the quarterfinals.

[Veni_Vidi_Vici_W]

@Papist

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from what I understand they had their suspicions early on, but its hard to just take action straight away. Then, both the smurfing and lagg were confirmed again after the last matches. Besides, the players were themselves aware of knowing they were smurfing, just wasnt out in the open yet. They also knew their games lagged (a logical cause if you try to hide IP via vpn for example). Our previous game was totally fine to play also, even lasted 2 hours with no major lagg issues.

[sebnan12]

lol kids. one good post here and it came from cometk. just dont ssmurf and ur fine whatever...

[momuuu]

I dont get it. They smurfed so dq. Whats the fuss about?

[supernapoleon]

If veni and ajiv had balls they would fight them again

[Jack]

If veni and ajiv had balls they would fight them again

well veni and ajiv know its sid and storm now, would be interesting if they wud give a re

[_H2O]

As soon as enough evidence was there (skill,proxy ip, and lag implying proxy) the admins acted and made the right decision IMO. I don't understand how we can have two pages of discussion about the entire rule set. That doesn't distract me from the main issue here

[dietschlander]

why isn't the ESOC COUNCIL being asked to judge and/or mediate in such matters?

[edeholland]

Banning without warning and making up rules on the fly fits your username pretty well. It's a part of the character; don't worry too much about it.

Nice one

[sebnan12]

to be just fair their boom neither how they played was so abnormaly good ..

[dicktator_]

@dicktator_

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If you knew lag and smurfing were issues before the match, why did you allow it to proceed? It is indeed unfair to everyone involved for you to be aware of an issue, ignore it, let a late-stage match take place, and then post-actively take away a win. If you are going to have tournament rules, you must apply them quickly and universally. You can't give some people a pass, or suddenly penalize others for long-known violations in the quarterfinals.

I already said that was an error on my part. The match against Ajiv and ramex shouldn't have happened and action should've been taken beforehand. I agree with you here.

[pecelot]

Well, why did you ignore their and my first match in the tournament? Although the reason standing behind the disqualification may be arguable, if you decide to forbid them from playing in the championship, IMO you should look at their very first appearance, which was a match between them and WPact (@EAGLEMUT)

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Generally lag shouldn't be taken into consideration I assume, especially in this particular case given Veni's yellow ping that is proved by a screenshot.

[dicktator_]

Well, why did you ignore their and my first match in the tournament? Although the reason standing behind the disqualification may be arguable, if you decide to forbid them from playing in the championship, IMO you should look at their very first appearance, which was a match between them and WPact (@EAGLEMUT)

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Generally lag shouldn't be taken into consideration I assume, especially in this particular case given Veni's yellow ping that is proved by a screenshot.

At that point we had no reason to believe temutu and Christian were smurfs. The error on our part was not taking action after the match against Charlemagen and H2O and prior to the match against AJIV and veni. Citing lag as a reason for dq was an error because we had nothing in rules regarding lag.

[Hazza54321]

at least in this tourney there are action being taken vs smurfing

what? i got dq'd

He's referring to AdrianCarrot.

I know but its not like you guys have taken "no action"

[EAGLEMUT]

Well, why did you ignore their and my first match in the tournament?

At that point we had no reason to believe temutu and Christian were smurfs.

Damn. What a burn, I think I'm gonna need some ice here

The only reasonable option now is to advance WPact straight into the quarterfinals, obviously.

[dicktator_]

Alright, my head is a lot clearer now so I'm going to explain exactly what happened, what went wrong, and why there's so much drama and controversy over this particular disqualification.

What happened: We had sufficient reason to believe christian2502 (and possibly temutu as well) were smurfs. These reasons included no games on the christian2502 account in the past 5 months, a sudden drastic improvement in performance compared to previous games on the account, and use of proxy IPs/VPNs by both temutu and christian2502. As smurfing goes directly against one of our rules, the tourney admins unanimously decided to disqualify christian2502 and temutu.

Where we as tourney admins went wrong: While I still believe the punishment to be fitting of the crime, the execution of the punishment could have been much better:

-We did not give the users on temutu or christian2502 a chance to give their side of the story. We DQ'd temutu and christian2502 without warning and without attempting to reach out to them. AJIV and ramex19 had a say in the final decision, so, for fairness purposes, we should have given temutu and christian2502 that same opportunity. It's likely that the result punishment would have been the same, but by giving them a chance to have a say the decision would not be so biased and one sided. Also worth mentioning is that those within ESOC are for the most part aware that smurfing generally results in immediate disqualifications (this can be seen in the supremacy tournaments), but it might not be obvious to those outside of ESOC.

-We cited lag as a reason for the disqualification. There is absolutely nothing in the rules that says lag should lead to a disqualification. Furthermore, we did not have the "definite proof" that I claimed we had that temutu and christian2502 were the sole cause of lag, as can be seen by the screenshot with ramex19's yellow ping.

-We didn't make any rules regarding player lag. Player lag can ruin games and give some teams a disadvantage, but we should have had some kind of pre-set rule or procedure on how to determine who is lagging and how to handle it.

-We did not change the rules to reflect the change in streaming policy. I still think it was unfair to compare a discrepancy in rules regarding streaming policy to blatant smurfing, but the point that temutuAoe3 made still stands. The moment we decided to allow Gichtenlord and _H2O to stream their tourney games, we should have updated the rules to reflect the change in streaming policy.

-We waited too long to take action. It was obvious after the game against charlemagen and _H2O that their opponents were most likely smurfs. We should've looked into it and taken action immediately after that game and prior to the game against AJIV and ramex19, regardless of whether or not _H2O was interested in a rematch.

Hopefully we can learn from our mistakes here when running treaty tournaments in the future.

My offering: (This does not in any way represent the opinions of other admins). Here is what I am willing to do to make up for errors in judgement on behalf of myself and other admins. If the real users of temutu and christian2502 say who they are, and that they are willing to rematch, I will attempt to convince AJIV, veni, and the other admins to grant them a rematch. I can't guarantee that they will agree to it, but I'll do my best to convince them.

That said... smurfing in tournaments is still wrong. It has detrimental effects on the tourney as a whole, including but not limited to that it fucks up seeding (players are seeded based on ELO) and that it gives the smurfs an unfair advantage in that their opponents have no idea what they're up against. We made errors in judgement when handling this smurfing case but the biggest error of judgement was the decision to smurf in the first place. If the real users behind temutu and christian2502 had just played on their mains none of this would have happened.

[storm999]

Its funny people still remember me lol. Its fun to tease brainless kids but im too busy with school and tutoring but still this is a funny thread. Those who believed it was me will not change their mind and those who dont believed it was me will also never change their mind.

First of all, Atiq You are really genius to mock the same person publicly and then beg to him privately for a smurf account https://s18.postimg.org/a8ozblbmx/Boq_EKWU.jpg. Good job.


But there are many 2 faced people in this thread none of whom i give fuck about except dicktator whom i think was different because of his personality.

Dicktator im disappointed that if you really think its sid then you can expose him like this. He has helped many people but i think none as much as you with much with smurf accounts and given you so much help and information about so many players and saved you and tanner and others from many trouble from avoid getting ddosed and teached you so many technically things even when he dint owe you anything. And you are posting same information in this thread that he himself must have taught you privately and everyone that have learned from him and you use it against him because no other else has enough brains to find or prove anything you say.

If you are a mod of tourney that is fine but if you are making decisions against whom you think is sid and you know sid really well privately and use same information he told you privately to help a certain friends of yours and fuck him like this, This is so assholish from you. It would be best if you hadnt involved in this decision because of conflict or if you had contacted him privately to fix it.

What have you given in return besides only fucking the same person who was most loyal to you to please some other friends of yours who mock you and never are loyal to you. The saddest part is you must be typing from same keyboard that sid spent $100 to gift you.

You really think sid would expose you if you wanted to smurf someone or do same thing to you what you did to him? Trust me none of the brainless retards that you are helping will be loyal to you when they are in same position. You know the same people whom you are admins tease you right?


Anyway many kids whom are 2 faced are playing against each other and making themselves happy. This is the main reason why i left playing this game.

[dicktator_]

I had no idea sid was involved in this when I made the decision to instantly DQ. I NEVER wanted to fuck over sid, I really wish I had handled the situation better, because I've always and still consider sid a friend. The thing that made me realize it was sid was his first response on temutuAoe3. I know sid's writing style as I've known him for years.

[storm999]

you are lying dicktator. you messaged him on facebook about 30 min-1 hour before you made thread about disqualifying him and said everyone thinks Christian is sid. you knew 100% it was him and I'm sure you helped your mates to figure out it was him too. so loyalty, no trust. sad